Discussion:
Why OWS supports the homeless
(too old to reply)
Hisler
2011-11-01 06:29:09 UTC
Permalink
A blistering essay by by Barbara Ehrenreich. No one could have said it
better.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/10/23-3


Published on Sunday, October 23, 2011 by TomDispatch.com

Throw Them Out With the Trash: Why Homelessness Is Becoming an Occupy
Wall Street Issue

Published on Sunday, October 23, 2011 by TomDispatch.com
Throw Them Out With the Trash: Why Homelessness Is Becoming an Occupy
Wall Street Issue
by Barbara Ehrenreich

As anyone knows who has ever had to set up a military encampment or
build a village from the ground up, occupations pose staggering
logistical problems. Large numbers of people must be fed and kept
reasonably warm and dry. Trash has to be removed; medical care and
rudimentary security provided -- to which ends a dozen or more
committees may toil night and day. But for the individual occupier, one
problem often overshadows everything else, including job loss, the
destruction of the middle class, and the reign of the 1%. And that is
the single question: Where am I going to pee?

Some of the Occupy Wall Street encampments now spreading across the U.S.
have access to Port-o-Potties (Freedom Plaza in Washington, D.C.) or,
better yet, restrooms with sinks and running water (Fort Wayne,
Indiana). Others require their residents to forage on their own. At
Zuccotti Park, just blocks from Wall Street, this means long waits for
the restroom at a nearby Burger King or somewhat shorter ones at a
Starbucks a block away. At McPherson Square in D.C., a twenty-something
occupier showed me the pizza parlor where she can cop a pee during the
hours it’s open, as well as the alley where she crouches late at night.
Anyone with restroom-related issues -- arising from age, pregnancy,
prostate problems, or irritable bowel syndrome -- should prepare to join
the revolution in diapers.

Of course, political protesters do not face the challenges of urban
camping alone. Homeless people confront the same issues every day: how
to scrape together meals, keep warm at night by covering themselves with
cardboard or tarp, and relieve themselves without committing a crime.
Public restrooms are sparse in American cities -- "as if the need to go
to the bathroom does not exist," travel expert Arthur Frommer once
observed. And yet to yield to bladder pressure is to risk arrest. A
report entitled “Criminalizing Crisis,” to be released later this month
by the National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty, recounts the
following story from Wenatchee, Washington:

"Toward the end of 2010, a family of two parents and three children that
had been experiencing homelessness for a year and a half applied for a
2-bedroom apartment. The day before a scheduled meeting with the
apartment manager during the final stages of acquiring the lease, the
father of the family was arrested for public urination. The arrest
occurred at an hour when no public restrooms were available for use. Due
to the arrest, the father was unable to make the appointment with the
apartment manager and the property was rented out to another person. As
of March 2011, the family was still homeless and searching for housing."

What the Occupy Wall Streeters are beginning to discover, and homeless
people have known all along, is that most ordinary, biologically
necessary activities are illegal when performed in American streets --
not just peeing, but sitting, lying down, and sleeping. While the laws
vary from city to city, one of the harshest is in Sarasota, Florida,
which passed an ordinance in 2005 that makes it illegal to “engage in
digging or earth-breaking activities” -- that is, to build a latrine --
cook, make a fire, or be asleep and “when awakened state that he or she
has no other place to live.”

It is illegal, in other words, to be homeless or live outdoors for any
other reason. It should be noted, though, that there are no laws
requiring cities to provide food, shelter, or restrooms for their
indigent citizens.

The current prohibition on homelessness began to take shape in the
1980s, along with the ferocious growth of the financial industry (Wall
Street and all its tributaries throughout the nation). That was also the
era in which we stopped being a nation that manufactured much beyond
weightless, invisible “financial products,” leaving the old industrial
working class to carve out a livelihood at places like Wal-Mart.

As it turned out, the captains of the new “casino economy” -- the stock
brokers and investment bankers -- were highly sensitive, one might say
finicky, individuals, easily offended by having to step over the
homeless in the streets or bypass them in commuter train stations. In an
economy where a centimillionaire could turn into a billionaire
overnight, the poor and unwashed were a major buzzkill. Starting with
Mayor Rudy Giuliani in New York, city after city passed “broken windows”
or “quality of life” ordinances making it dangerous for the homeless to
loiter or, in some cases, even look “indigent,” in public spaces.

No one has yet tallied all the suffering occasioned by this crackdown --
the deaths from cold and exposure -- but “Criminalizing Crisis” offers
this story about a homeless pregnant woman in Columbia, South Carolina:

"During daytime hours, when she could not be inside of a shelter, she
attempted to spend time in a museum and was told to leave. She then
attempted to sit on a bench outside the museum and was again told to
relocate. In several other instances, still during her pregnancy, the
woman was told that she could not sit in a local park during the day
because she would be ‘squatting.’ In early 2011, about six months into
her pregnancy, the homeless woman began to feel unwell, went to a
hospital, and delivered a stillborn child."

Well before Tahrir Square was a twinkle in anyone’s eye, and even before
the recent recession, homeless Americans had begun to act in their own
defense, creating organized encampments, usually tent cities, in vacant
lots or wooded areas. These communities often feature various elementary
forms of self-governance: food from local charities has to be
distributed, latrines dug, rules -- such as no drugs, weapons, or
violence -- enforced. With all due credit to the Egyptian democracy
movement, the Spanish indignados, and rebels all over the world, tent
cities are the domestic progenitors of the American occupation movement.

There is nothing “political” about these settlements of the homeless --
no signs denouncing greed or visits from leftwing luminaries -- but they
have been treated with far less official forbearance than the occupation
encampments of the “American autumn.” LA’s Skid Row endures constant
police harassment, for example, but when it rained, Mayor Antonio
Villaraigosa had ponchos distributed to nearby Occupy LA.

All over the country, in the last few years, police have moved in on the
tent cities of the homeless, one by one, from Seattle to Wooster,
Sacramento to Providence, in raids that often leave the former occupants
without even their minimal possessions. In Chattanooga, Tennessee, last
summer, a charity outreach worker explained the forcible dispersion of a
local tent city by saying, “The city will not tolerate a tent city.
That’s been made very clear to us. The camps have to be out of sight.”

What occupiers from all walks of life are discovering, at least every
time they contemplate taking a leak, is that to be homeless in America
is to live like a fugitive. The destitute are our own native-born
“illegals,” facing prohibitions on the most basic activities of
survival. They are not supposed to soil public space with their urine,
their feces, or their exhausted bodies. Nor are they supposed to spoil
the landscape with their unusual wardrobe choices or body odors. They
are, in fact, supposed to die, and preferably to do so without leaving a
corpse for the dwindling public sector to transport, process, and burn.

But the occupiers are not from all walks of life, just from those walks
that slope downwards -- from debt, joblessness, and foreclosure --
leading eventually to pauperism and the streets. Some of the present
occupiers were homeless to start with, attracted to the occupation
encampments by the prospect of free food and at least temporary shelter
from police harassment. Many others are drawn from the
borderline-homeless “nouveau poor,” and normally encamp on friends’
couches or parents’ folding beds.

In Portland, Austin, and Philadelphia, the Occupy Wall Street movement
is taking up the cause of the homeless as its own, which of course it
is. Homelessness is not a side issue unconnected to plutocracy and
greed. It’s where we’re all eventually headed -- the 99%, or at least
the 70%, of us, every debt-loaded college grad, out-of-work school
teacher, and impoverished senior -- unless this revolution succeeds.
© 2011 Barbara Ehrenreich
Red Cloud
2011-11-01 07:03:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hisler
A blistering essay by by Barbara Ehrenreich. No one could have said it
better.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/10/23-3
Published on Sunday, October 23, 2011 by TomDispatch.com
Throw Them Out With the Trash: Why Homelessness Is Becoming an Occupy
Wall Street Issue
Published on Sunday, October 23, 2011 by TomDispatch.com
Throw Them Out With the Trash: Why Homelessness Is Becoming an Occupy
Wall Street Issue
by Barbara Ehrenreich
As anyone knows who has ever had to set up a military encampment or
build a village from the ground up, occupations pose staggering
logistical problems. Large numbers of people must be fed and kept
reasonably warm and dry. Trash has to be removed; medical care and
rudimentary security provided -- to which ends a dozen or more
committees may toil night and day. But for the individual occupier, one
problem often overshadows everything else, including job loss, the
destruction of the middle class, and the reign of the 1%. And that is
the single question: Where am I going to pee?
Some of the Occupy Wall Street encampments now spreading across the U.S.
have access to Port-o-Potties (Freedom Plaza in Washington, D.C.) or,
better yet, restrooms with sinks and running water (Fort Wayne,
Indiana). Others require their residents to forage on their own. At
Zuccotti Park, just blocks from Wall Street, this means long waits for
the restroom at a nearby Burger King or somewhat shorter ones at a
Starbucks a block away. At McPherson Square in D.C., a twenty-something
occupier showed me the pizza parlor where she can cop a pee during the
hours it s open, as well as the alley where she crouches late at night.
Anyone with restroom-related issues -- arising from age, pregnancy,
prostate problems, or irritable bowel syndrome -- should prepare to join
the revolution in diapers.
Of course, political protesters do not face the challenges of urban
camping alone. Homeless people confront the same issues every day: how
to scrape together meals, keep warm at night by covering themselves with
cardboard or tarp, and relieve themselves without committing a crime.
Public restrooms are sparse in American cities -- "as if the need to go
to the bathroom does not exist," travel expert Arthur Frommer once
observed.  And yet to yield to bladder pressure is to risk arrest. A
report entitled Criminalizing Crisis, to be released later this month
by the National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty, recounts the
"Toward the end of 2010, a family of two parents and three children that
had been experiencing homelessness for a year and a half applied for a
2-bedroom apartment. The day before a scheduled meeting with the
apartment manager during the final stages of acquiring the lease, the
father of the family was arrested for public urination. The arrest
occurred at an hour when no public restrooms were available for use. Due
to the arrest, the father was unable to make the appointment with the
apartment manager and the property was rented out to another person. As
of March 2011, the family was still homeless and searching for housing."
What the Occupy Wall Streeters are beginning to discover, and homeless
people have known all along, is that most ordinary, biologically
necessary activities are illegal when performed in American streets --
not just peeing, but sitting, lying down, and sleeping. While the laws
vary from city to city, one of the harshest is in Sarasota, Florida,
which passed an ordinance in 2005 that makes it illegal to engage in
digging or earth-breaking activities -- that is, to build a latrine --
cook, make a fire, or be asleep and when awakened state that he or she
has no other place to live.
It is illegal, in other words, to be homeless or live outdoors for any
other reason. It should be noted, though, that there are no laws
requiring cities to provide food, shelter, or restrooms for their
indigent citizens.
The current prohibition on homelessness began to take shape in the
1980s, along with the ferocious growth of the financial industry (Wall
Street and all its tributaries throughout the nation). That was also the
era in which we stopped being a nation that manufactured much beyond
weightless, invisible financial products, leaving the old industrial
working class to carve out a livelihood at places like Wal-Mart.
As it turned out, the captains of the new casino economy -- the stock
brokers and investment bankers -- were highly sensitive, one might say
finicky, individuals, easily offended by having to step over the
homeless in the streets or bypass them in commuter train stations. In an
economy where a centimillionaire could turn into a billionaire
overnight, the poor and unwashed were a major buzzkill. Starting with
Mayor Rudy Giuliani in New York, city after city passed broken windows
or quality of life ordinances making it dangerous for the homeless to
loiter or, in some cases, even look indigent, in public spaces.
No one has yet tallied all the suffering occasioned by this crackdown --
the deaths from cold and exposure -- but Criminalizing Crisis offers
"During daytime hours, when she could not be inside of a shelter, she
attempted to spend time in a museum and was told to leave. She then
attempted to sit on a bench outside the museum and was again told to
relocate. In several other instances, still during her pregnancy, the
woman was told that she could not sit in a local park during the day
because she would be squatting. In early 2011, about six months into
her pregnancy, the homeless woman began to feel unwell, went to a
hospital, and delivered a stillborn child."
Well before Tahrir Square was a twinkle in anyone s eye, and even before
the recent recession, homeless Americans had begun to act in their own
defense, creating organized encampments, usually tent cities, in vacant
lots or wooded areas. These communities often feature various elementary
forms of self-governance: food from local charities has to be
distributed, latrines dug, rules -- such as no drugs, weapons, or
violence -- enforced. With all due credit to the Egyptian democracy
movement, the Spanish indignados, and rebels all over the world, tent
cities are the domestic progenitors of the American occupation movement.
There is nothing political about these settlements of the homeless --
no signs denouncing greed or visits from leftwing luminaries -- but they
have been treated with far less official forbearance than the occupation
encampments of the American autumn. LA s Skid Row endures constant
police harassment, for example, but when it rained, Mayor Antonio
Villaraigosa had ponchos distributed to nearby Occupy LA.
All over the country, in the last few years, police have moved in on the
tent cities of the homeless, one by one, from Seattle to Wooster,
Sacramento to Providence, in raids that often leave the former occupants
without even their minimal possessions. In Chattanooga, Tennessee, last
summer, a charity outreach worker explained the forcible dispersion of a
local tent city by saying, The city will not tolerate a tent city.
That s been made very clear to us. The camps have to be out of sight.
What occupiers from all walks of life are discovering, at least every
time they contemplate taking a leak, is that to be homeless in America
is to live like a fugitive. The destitute are our own native-born
illegals, facing prohibitions on the most basic activities of
survival. They are not supposed to soil public space with their urine,
their feces, or their exhausted bodies. Nor are they supposed to spoil
the landscape with their unusual wardrobe choices or body odors. They
are, in fact, supposed to die, and preferably to do so without leaving a
corpse for the dwindling public sector to transport, process, and burn.
But the occupiers are not from all walks of life, just from those walks
that slope downwards -- from debt, joblessness, and foreclosure --
leading eventually to pauperism and the streets. Some of the present
occupiers were homeless to start with, attracted to the occupation
encampments by the prospect of free food and at least temporary shelter
from police harassment. Many others are drawn from the
borderline-homeless nouveau poor, and normally encamp on friends
couches or parents folding beds.
In Portland, Austin, and Philadelphia, the Occupy Wall Street movement
is taking up the cause of the homeless as its own, which of course it
is. Homelessness is not a side issue unconnected to plutocracy and
greed. It s where we re all eventually headed -- the 99%, or at least
the 70%, of us, every debt-loaded college grad, out-of-work school
teacher, and impoverished senior -- unless this revolution succeeds.
2011 Barbara Ehrenreich
Isn't the homelessness the first reason supported by OWS?
They are the first victim of the Reaganomics Trickle Down Theory
and the first victim of Hispanic invasion.

Ever heard of Hispanic immigrant (legal and illegals) are taking
control of the demographic job market from the bottom up? Obvious
reason why
homeless has gone up since Reganomics and NAFTA and sudden growing of
Hispanic population . Elites, politician, scholar, breeding-heart
liberal won't face that. They speak for whoever make more profit by
any mean necessarily.
Hisler
2011-11-01 07:26:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Red Cloud
Post by Hisler
A blistering essay by by Barbara Ehrenreich. No one could have said it
better.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/10/23-3
Published on Sunday, October 23, 2011 by TomDispatch.com
Throw Them Out With the Trash: Why Homelessness Is Becoming an Occupy
Wall Street Issue
Published on Sunday, October 23, 2011 by TomDispatch.com
Throw Them Out With the Trash: Why Homelessness Is Becoming an Occupy
Wall Street Issue
by Barbara Ehrenreich
As anyone knows who has ever had to set up a military encampment or
build a village from the ground up, occupations pose staggering
logistical problems. Large numbers of people must be fed and kept
reasonably warm and dry. Trash has to be removed; medical care and
rudimentary security provided -- to which ends a dozen or more
committees may toil night and day. But for the individual occupier, one
problem often overshadows everything else, including job loss, the
destruction of the middle class, and the reign of the 1%. And that is
the single question: Where am I going to pee?
Some of the Occupy Wall Street encampments now spreading across the U.S.
have access to Port-o-Potties (Freedom Plaza in Washington, D.C.) or,
better yet, restrooms with sinks and running water (Fort Wayne,
Indiana). Others require their residents to forage on their own. At
Zuccotti Park, just blocks from Wall Street, this means long waits for
the restroom at a nearby Burger King or somewhat shorter ones at a
Starbucks a block away. At McPherson Square in D.C., a twenty-something
occupier showed me the pizza parlor where she can cop a pee during the
hours it s open, as well as the alley where she crouches late at night.
Anyone with restroom-related issues -- arising from age, pregnancy,
prostate problems, or irritable bowel syndrome -- should prepare to join
the revolution in diapers.
Of course, political protesters do not face the challenges of urban
camping alone. Homeless people confront the same issues every day: how
to scrape together meals, keep warm at night by covering themselves with
cardboard or tarp, and relieve themselves without committing a crime.
Public restrooms are sparse in American cities -- "as if the need to go
to the bathroom does not exist," travel expert Arthur Frommer once
observed. And yet to yield to bladder pressure is to risk arrest. A
report entitled Criminalizing Crisis, to be released later this month
by the National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty, recounts the
"Toward the end of 2010, a family of two parents and three children that
had been experiencing homelessness for a year and a half applied for a
2-bedroom apartment. The day before a scheduled meeting with the
apartment manager during the final stages of acquiring the lease, the
father of the family was arrested for public urination. The arrest
occurred at an hour when no public restrooms were available for use. Due
to the arrest, the father was unable to make the appointment with the
apartment manager and the property was rented out to another person. As
of March 2011, the family was still homeless and searching for housing."
What the Occupy Wall Streeters are beginning to discover, and homeless
people have known all along, is that most ordinary, biologically
necessary activities are illegal when performed in American streets --
not just peeing, but sitting, lying down, and sleeping. While the laws
vary from city to city, one of the harshest is in Sarasota, Florida,
which passed an ordinance in 2005 that makes it illegal to engage in
digging or earth-breaking activities -- that is, to build a latrine --
cook, make a fire, or be asleep and when awakened state that he or she
has no other place to live.
It is illegal, in other words, to be homeless or live outdoors for any
other reason. It should be noted, though, that there are no laws
requiring cities to provide food, shelter, or restrooms for their
indigent citizens.
The current prohibition on homelessness began to take shape in the
1980s, along with the ferocious growth of the financial industry (Wall
Street and all its tributaries throughout the nation). That was also the
era in which we stopped being a nation that manufactured much beyond
weightless, invisible financial products, leaving the old industrial
working class to carve out a livelihood at places like Wal-Mart.
As it turned out, the captains of the new casino economy -- the stock
brokers and investment bankers -- were highly sensitive, one might say
finicky, individuals, easily offended by having to step over the
homeless in the streets or bypass them in commuter train stations. In an
economy where a centimillionaire could turn into a billionaire
overnight, the poor and unwashed were a major buzzkill. Starting with
Mayor Rudy Giuliani in New York, city after city passed broken windows
or quality of life ordinances making it dangerous for the homeless to
loiter or, in some cases, even look indigent, in public spaces.
No one has yet tallied all the suffering occasioned by this crackdown --
the deaths from cold and exposure -- but Criminalizing Crisis offers
"During daytime hours, when she could not be inside of a shelter, she
attempted to spend time in a museum and was told to leave. She then
attempted to sit on a bench outside the museum and was again told to
relocate. In several other instances, still during her pregnancy, the
woman was told that she could not sit in a local park during the day
because she would be squatting. In early 2011, about six months into
her pregnancy, the homeless woman began to feel unwell, went to a
hospital, and delivered a stillborn child."
Well before Tahrir Square was a twinkle in anyone s eye, and even before
the recent recession, homeless Americans had begun to act in their own
defense, creating organized encampments, usually tent cities, in vacant
lots or wooded areas. These communities often feature various elementary
forms of self-governance: food from local charities has to be
distributed, latrines dug, rules -- such as no drugs, weapons, or
violence -- enforced. With all due credit to the Egyptian democracy
movement, the Spanish indignados, and rebels all over the world, tent
cities are the domestic progenitors of the American occupation movement.
There is nothing political about these settlements of the homeless --
no signs denouncing greed or visits from leftwing luminaries -- but they
have been treated with far less official forbearance than the occupation
encampments of the American autumn. LA s Skid Row endures constant
police harassment, for example, but when it rained, Mayor Antonio
Villaraigosa had ponchos distributed to nearby Occupy LA.
All over the country, in the last few years, police have moved in on the
tent cities of the homeless, one by one, from Seattle to Wooster,
Sacramento to Providence, in raids that often leave the former occupants
without even their minimal possessions. In Chattanooga, Tennessee, last
summer, a charity outreach worker explained the forcible dispersion of a
local tent city by saying, The city will not tolerate a tent city.
That s been made very clear to us. The camps have to be out of sight.
What occupiers from all walks of life are discovering, at least every
time they contemplate taking a leak, is that to be homeless in America
is to live like a fugitive. The destitute are our own native-born
illegals, facing prohibitions on the most basic activities of
survival. They are not supposed to soil public space with their urine,
their feces, or their exhausted bodies. Nor are they supposed to spoil
the landscape with their unusual wardrobe choices or body odors. They
are, in fact, supposed to die, and preferably to do so without leaving a
corpse for the dwindling public sector to transport, process, and burn.
But the occupiers are not from all walks of life, just from those walks
that slope downwards -- from debt, joblessness, and foreclosure --
leading eventually to pauperism and the streets. Some of the present
occupiers were homeless to start with, attracted to the occupation
encampments by the prospect of free food and at least temporary shelter
from police harassment. Many others are drawn from the
borderline-homeless nouveau poor, and normally encamp on friends
couches or parents folding beds.
In Portland, Austin, and Philadelphia, the Occupy Wall Street movement
is taking up the cause of the homeless as its own, which of course it
is. Homelessness is not a side issue unconnected to plutocracy and
greed. It s where we re all eventually headed -- the 99%, or at least
the 70%, of us, every debt-loaded college grad, out-of-work school
teacher, and impoverished senior -- unless this revolution succeeds.
2011 Barbara Ehrenreich
Isn't the homelessness the first reason supported by OWS?
They are the first victim of the Reaganomics Trickle Down Theory
and the first victim of Hispanic invasion.
Ever heard of Hispanic immigrant (legal and illegals) are taking
control of the demographic job market from the bottom up? Obvious
reason why
homeless has gone up since Reganomics and NAFTA and sudden growing of
Hispanic population . Elites, politician, scholar, breeding-heart
liberal won't face that. They speak for whoever make more profit by
any mean necessarily.
Outstanding comments. Thank you Red Cloud.
Frank
2011-11-01 12:03:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Red Cloud
Post by Hisler
A blistering essay by by Barbara Ehrenreich. No one could have said it
better.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/10/23-3
Published on Sunday, October 23, 2011 by TomDispatch.com
Throw Them Out With the Trash: Why Homelessness Is Becoming an Occupy
Wall Street Issue
Published on Sunday, October 23, 2011 by TomDispatch.com
Throw Them Out With the Trash: Why Homelessness Is Becoming an Occupy
Wall Street Issue
by Barbara Ehrenreich
As anyone knows who has ever had to set up a military encampment or
build a village from the ground up, occupations pose staggering
logistical problems. Large numbers of people must be fed and kept
reasonably warm and dry. Trash has to be removed; medical care and
rudimentary security provided -- to which ends a dozen or more
committees may toil night and day. But for the individual occupier, one
problem often overshadows everything else, including job loss, the
destruction of the middle class, and the reign of the 1%. And that is
the single question: Where am I going to pee?
Some of the Occupy Wall Street encampments now spreading across the U.S.
have access to Port-o-Potties (Freedom Plaza in Washington, D.C.) or,
better yet, restrooms with sinks and running water (Fort Wayne,
Indiana). Others require their residents to forage on their own. At
Zuccotti Park, just blocks from Wall Street, this means long waits for
the restroom at a nearby Burger King or somewhat shorter ones at a
Starbucks a block away. At McPherson Square in D.C., a twenty-something
occupier showed me the pizza parlor where she can cop a pee during the
hours it s open, as well as the alley where she crouches late at night.
Anyone with restroom-related issues -- arising from age, pregnancy,
prostate problems, or irritable bowel syndrome -- should prepare to join
the revolution in diapers.
Of course, political protesters do not face the challenges of urban
camping alone. Homeless people confront the same issues every day: how
to scrape together meals, keep warm at night by covering themselves with
cardboard or tarp, and relieve themselves without committing a crime.
Public restrooms are sparse in American cities -- "as if the need to go
to the bathroom does not exist," travel expert Arthur Frommer once
observed. And yet to yield to bladder pressure is to risk arrest. A
report entitled Criminalizing Crisis, to be released later this month
by the National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty, recounts the
"Toward the end of 2010, a family of two parents and three children that
had been experiencing homelessness for a year and a half applied for a
2-bedroom apartment. The day before a scheduled meeting with the
apartment manager during the final stages of acquiring the lease, the
father of the family was arrested for public urination. The arrest
occurred at an hour when no public restrooms were available for use. Due
to the arrest, the father was unable to make the appointment with the
apartment manager and the property was rented out to another person. As
of March 2011, the family was still homeless and searching for housing."
What the Occupy Wall Streeters are beginning to discover, and homeless
people have known all along, is that most ordinary, biologically
necessary activities are illegal when performed in American streets --
not just peeing, but sitting, lying down, and sleeping. While the laws
vary from city to city, one of the harshest is in Sarasota, Florida,
which passed an ordinance in 2005 that makes it illegal to engage in
digging or earth-breaking activities -- that is, to build a latrine --
cook, make a fire, or be asleep and when awakened state that he or she
has no other place to live.
It is illegal, in other words, to be homeless or live outdoors for any
other reason. It should be noted, though, that there are no laws
requiring cities to provide food, shelter, or restrooms for their
indigent citizens.
The current prohibition on homelessness began to take shape in the
1980s, along with the ferocious growth of the financial industry (Wall
Street and all its tributaries throughout the nation). That was also the
era in which we stopped being a nation that manufactured much beyond
weightless, invisible financial products, leaving the old industrial
working class to carve out a livelihood at places like Wal-Mart.
As it turned out, the captains of the new casino economy -- the stock
brokers and investment bankers -- were highly sensitive, one might say
finicky, individuals, easily offended by having to step over the
homeless in the streets or bypass them in commuter train stations. In an
economy where a centimillionaire could turn into a billionaire
overnight, the poor and unwashed were a major buzzkill. Starting with
Mayor Rudy Giuliani in New York, city after city passed broken windows
or quality of life ordinances making it dangerous for the homeless to
loiter or, in some cases, even look indigent, in public spaces.
No one has yet tallied all the suffering occasioned by this crackdown --
the deaths from cold and exposure -- but Criminalizing Crisis offers
"During daytime hours, when she could not be inside of a shelter, she
attempted to spend time in a museum and was told to leave. She then
attempted to sit on a bench outside the museum and was again told to
relocate. In several other instances, still during her pregnancy, the
woman was told that she could not sit in a local park during the day
because she would be squatting. In early 2011, about six months into
her pregnancy, the homeless woman began to feel unwell, went to a
hospital, and delivered a stillborn child."
Well before Tahrir Square was a twinkle in anyone s eye, and even before
the recent recession, homeless Americans had begun to act in their own
defense, creating organized encampments, usually tent cities, in vacant
lots or wooded areas. These communities often feature various elementary
forms of self-governance: food from local charities has to be
distributed, latrines dug, rules -- such as no drugs, weapons, or
violence -- enforced. With all due credit to the Egyptian democracy
movement, the Spanish indignados, and rebels all over the world, tent
cities are the domestic progenitors of the American occupation movement.
There is nothing political about these settlements of the homeless --
no signs denouncing greed or visits from leftwing luminaries -- but they
have been treated with far less official forbearance than the occupation
encampments of the American autumn. LA s Skid Row endures constant
police harassment, for example, but when it rained, Mayor Antonio
Villaraigosa had ponchos distributed to nearby Occupy LA.
All over the country, in the last few years, police have moved in on the
tent cities of the homeless, one by one, from Seattle to Wooster,
Sacramento to Providence, in raids that often leave the former occupants
without even their minimal possessions. In Chattanooga, Tennessee, last
summer, a charity outreach worker explained the forcible dispersion of a
local tent city by saying, The city will not tolerate a tent city.
That s been made very clear to us. The camps have to be out of sight.
What occupiers from all walks of life are discovering, at least every
time they contemplate taking a leak, is that to be homeless in America
is to live like a fugitive. The destitute are our own native-born
illegals, facing prohibitions on the most basic activities of
survival. They are not supposed to soil public space with their urine,
their feces, or their exhausted bodies. Nor are they supposed to spoil
the landscape with their unusual wardrobe choices or body odors. They
are, in fact, supposed to die, and preferably to do so without leaving a
corpse for the dwindling public sector to transport, process, and burn.
But the occupiers are not from all walks of life, just from those walks
that slope downwards -- from debt, joblessness, and foreclosure --
leading eventually to pauperism and the streets. Some of the present
occupiers were homeless to start with, attracted to the occupation
encampments by the prospect of free food and at least temporary shelter
from police harassment. Many others are drawn from the
borderline-homeless nouveau poor, and normally encamp on friends
couches or parents folding beds.
In Portland, Austin, and Philadelphia, the Occupy Wall Street movement
is taking up the cause of the homeless as its own, which of course it
is. Homelessness is not a side issue unconnected to plutocracy and
greed. It s where we re all eventually headed -- the 99%, or at least
the 70%, of us, every debt-loaded college grad, out-of-work school
teacher, and impoverished senior -- unless this revolution succeeds.
2011 Barbara Ehrenreich
Isn't the homelessness the first reason supported by OWS?
They are the first victim of the Reaganomics Trickle Down Theory
and the first victim of Hispanic invasion.
Ever heard of Hispanic immigrant (legal and illegals) are taking
control of the demographic job market from the bottom up? Obvious
reason why
homeless has gone up since Reganomics and NAFTA and sudden growing of
Hispanic population . Elites, politician, scholar, breeding-heart
liberal won't face that. They speak for whoever make more profit by
any mean necessarily.
Outstanding comments. Thank you Red Cloud.
I thought most of the homeless were suffering from mental disorders
and/or drug and alcohol dependency. Years ago such folks would be
institutionalized to straighten them out and protect them but now they
are just turned loose to inflict their problems on the rest of us.

Blame should not be placed on Reganomics or illegal immigrants but the
liberal political system that allows this to happen.
d***@dudu.org
2011-11-01 13:01:26 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 08:03:50 -0400, Frank
Post by Frank
I thought most of the homeless were suffering from mental disorders
and/or drug and alcohol dependency. Years ago such folks would be
institutionalized to straighten them out and protect them but now they
are just turned loose to inflict their problems on the rest of us.
Uh, and who just exactly is supposed to pay to keep all the state
defined and diagnosed mental patients locked up for the rest of their
lives?
Post by Frank
Blame should not be placed on Reganomics or illegal immigrants but the
liberal political system that allows this to happen.
Liberal??? Says the mindless drone demanding "smaller government",
"cut the budget", "cut social services".

Just who do you think is supposed to keep all these people YOU deem
mentally defective locked up, eh conservative?

Fuck me you people are dumb.
Frank
2011-11-01 13:20:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@dudu.org
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 08:03:50 -0400, Frank
Post by Frank
I thought most of the homeless were suffering from mental disorders
and/or drug and alcohol dependency. Years ago such folks would be
institutionalized to straighten them out and protect them but now they
are just turned loose to inflict their problems on the rest of us.
Uh, and who just exactly is supposed to pay to keep all the state
defined and diagnosed mental patients locked up for the rest of their
lives?
Post by Frank
Blame should not be placed on Reganomics or illegal immigrants but the
liberal political system that allows this to happen.
Liberal??? Says the mindless drone demanding "smaller government",
"cut the budget", "cut social services".
Just who do you think is supposed to keep all these people YOU deem
mentally defective locked up, eh conservative?
Fuck me you people are dumb.
Your problem is you think most of us on the right want no government.
d***@dudu.org
2011-11-01 13:46:00 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 09:20:51 -0400, Frank
Post by Frank
Post by d***@dudu.org
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 08:03:50 -0400, Frank
Post by Frank
I thought most of the homeless were suffering from mental disorders
and/or drug and alcohol dependency. Years ago such folks would be
institutionalized to straighten them out and protect them but now they
are just turned loose to inflict their problems on the rest of us.
Uh, and who just exactly is supposed to pay to keep all the state
defined and diagnosed mental patients locked up for the rest of their
lives?
Post by Frank
Blame should not be placed on Reganomics or illegal immigrants but the
liberal political system that allows this to happen.
Liberal??? Says the mindless drone demanding "smaller government",
"cut the budget", "cut social services".
Just who do you think is supposed to keep all these people YOU deem
mentally defective locked up, eh conservative?
Fuck me you people are dumb.
Your problem is you think most of us on the right want no government.
Yet you spew on and on about "smaller government" and severe budget
cuts especially to social services but then you bitch about all the
homeless and insist that if it wasn't for "leftists" all these people
would be locked up for the rest of their lives in nice safe mental
institutions so they couldn't bother you.

If you aren't capable of seeing how incredibly fucked up that is then
you are more fucked up than I ever thought.

I know, maybe you can just skip the mental institutions and go right
on to the concentration camps and all you nice capitalists can use
them for lampshade factories. You rightists had a grand time doing
that one not too long ago. Betcha can't wait to do it again.
DogDiesel
2011-11-01 14:14:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@dudu.org
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 09:20:51 -0400, Frank
Post by Frank
Post by d***@dudu.org
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 08:03:50 -0400, Frank
Post by Frank
I thought most of the homeless were suffering from mental disorders
and/or drug and alcohol dependency. Years ago such folks would be
institutionalized to straighten them out and protect them but now they
are just turned loose to inflict their problems on the rest of us.
Uh, and who just exactly is supposed to pay to keep all the state
defined and diagnosed mental patients locked up for the rest of their
lives?
Post by Frank
Blame should not be placed on Reganomics or illegal immigrants but the
liberal political system that allows this to happen.
Liberal??? Says the mindless drone demanding "smaller government",
"cut the budget", "cut social services".
Just who do you think is supposed to keep all these people YOU deem
mentally defective locked up, eh conservative?
Fuck me you people are dumb.
Your problem is you think most of us on the right want no government.
Yet you spew on and on about "smaller government" and severe budget
cuts especially to social services but then you bitch about all the
homeless and insist that if it wasn't for "leftists" all these people
would be locked up for the rest of their lives in nice safe mental
institutions so they couldn't bother you.
If you aren't capable of seeing how incredibly fucked up that is then
you are more fucked up than I ever thought.
I know, maybe you can just skip the mental institutions and go right
on to the concentration camps and all you nice capitalists can use
them for lampshade factories. You rightists had a grand time doing
that one not too long ago. Betcha can't wait to do it again.
The fact of the matter is. The long term survivalbility of the country as
it was created. And the ability of the country to pay the bills. Takes
precedence over people.

I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our Constitution. I
would be willing to depend on that alone for the reduction of the
administration of our government; I mean an additional article taking from
the Federal Government the power of borrowing."
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Taylor of Caroline, November 26, 1798



The Constitution does not have a balanced budget amendment largely because
of the Founders attitude that only gold and silver would be the medium of
exchange in the states as expressed in Article I, Section 10 of the
Constitution. This would automatically inhibit governments' temptation to
first create and then inflate paper money. We got off track rather quickly
and by 1797 Thomas Jefferson wrote in irritation, "I wish it were possible
to obtain a single amendment to our Constitution. I would be willing to
depend on that alone for the reduction of the administration of our
government; I mean an additional article taking from the Federal Government
the power of borrowing. I now deny their power of making paper money or
anything else a legal tender" (Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Taylor of
Caroline, November 26, 1798; reproduced in The Writings of Thomas Jefferson
v. 10, edited by Lipscomb and Bergh).

A Constitutional amendment to restrict the federal government from further
enslaving our children with debt could come from either the states or the
Congress. Since 1975 thirty-two states have petitioned Congress proposing a
balanced budget amendment. Two more, are needed to complete the 2/3rds
requirement of Article V in the Constitution forcing the ratification
process. This process necessitates the acceptance of 3/4ths of the states
which, with the flagrant abuse of our money supply on the part of the
federal government, should be a given. The beauty of this is that a spending
addicted president, whether republican or democrat, is by-passed. No
signature is sought and no veto power can be exercised. So states let us get
two more states on board.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_budget_amendment



At the time that the Constitution came into effect, the United States had a
significant debt, primarily associated with the Revolutionary War. There
were differences within and between the major political coalitions over the
possible liquidation or increase of this debt. As early as 1798, Thomas
Jefferson wrote

I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our Constitution.
I would be willing to depend on that alone for the reduction of the
administration of our government; I mean an additional article taking from
the Federal Government the power of borrowing. I now deny their power of
making paper money or anything else a legal tender. I know that to pay all
proper expenses within the year would, in case of war, be hard on us. But
not so hard as ten wars instead of one. For wars could be reduced in that
proportion; besides that the State governments would be free to lend their
credit in borrowing quotas.[12
unknown
2011-11-01 15:36:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@dudu.org
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 09:20:51 -0400, Frank
Post by Frank
Post by d***@dudu.org
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 08:03:50 -0400, Frank
Post by Frank
I thought most of the homeless were suffering from mental disorders
and/or drug and alcohol dependency. Years ago such folks would be
institutionalized to straighten them out and protect them but now they
are just turned loose to inflict their problems on the rest of us.
Uh, and who just exactly is supposed to pay to keep all the state
defined and diagnosed mental patients locked up for the rest of their
lives?
Post by Frank
Blame should not be placed on Reganomics or illegal immigrants but the
liberal political system that allows this to happen.
Liberal??? Says the mindless drone demanding "smaller government",
"cut the budget", "cut social services".
Just who do you think is supposed to keep all these people YOU deem
mentally defective locked up, eh conservative?
Fuck me you people are dumb.
Your problem is you think most of us on the right want no government.
Yet you spew on and on about "smaller government" and severe budget
cuts especially to social services but then you bitch about all the
homeless and insist that if it wasn't for "leftists" all these people
would be locked up for the rest of their lives in nice safe mental
institutions so they couldn't bother you.
If you aren't capable of seeing how incredibly fucked up that is then
you are more fucked up than I ever thought.
I know, maybe you can just skip the mental institutions and go right
on to the concentration camps and all you nice capitalists can use
them for lampshade factories. You rightists had a grand time doing
that one not too long ago. Betcha can't wait to do it again.
Hitler and the Nazis were National Socialists, such as yourself. They
took from the wealthy and successful, like you want to do, and were
finished and dead in 10 years, like you will be if Obama stays in office
and ruins our country further.
Ray Keller
2011-11-02 03:29:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@dudu.org
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 09:20:51 -0400, Frank
Post by Frank
Post by d***@dudu.org
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 08:03:50 -0400, Frank
Post by Frank
I thought most of the homeless were suffering from mental disorders
and/or drug and alcohol dependency. Years ago such folks would be
institutionalized to straighten them out and protect them but now they
are just turned loose to inflict their problems on the rest of us.
Uh, and who just exactly is supposed to pay to keep all the state
defined and diagnosed mental patients locked up for the rest of their
lives?
Post by Frank
Blame should not be placed on Reganomics or illegal immigrants but the
liberal political system that allows this to happen.
Liberal??? Says the mindless drone demanding "smaller government",
"cut the budget", "cut social services".
Just who do you think is supposed to keep all these people YOU deem
mentally defective locked up, eh conservative?
Fuck me you people are dumb.
Your problem is you think most of us on the right want no government.
Yet you spew on and on about "smaller government" and severe budget
cuts especially to social services but then you bitch about all the
homeless and insist that if it wasn't for "leftists" all these people
would be locked up for the rest of their lives in nice safe mental
institutions so they couldn't bother you.
If you aren't capable of seeing how incredibly fucked up that is then
you are more fucked up than I ever thought.
I know, maybe you can just skip the mental institutions and go right
on to the concentration camps and all you nice capitalists can use
them for lampshade factories. You rightists had a grand time doing
that one not too long ago. Betcha can't wait to do it again.
Hitler and the Nazis were National Socialists, such as yourself. They
took from the wealthy and successful, like you want to do, and were
finished and dead in 10 years, like you will be if Obama stays in office
and ruins our country further.
==========================================
I'd give odds doodoo lasts less than 2 years befor someone puts him out of
his misery..slowly
Robert not Roberto
2011-11-01 16:22:31 UTC
Permalink
wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 09:20:51 -0400, Frank
Post by Frank
Post by d***@dudu.org
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 08:03:50 -0400, Frank
Post by Frank
I thought most of the homeless were suffering from mental disorders
and/or drug and alcohol dependency. Years ago such folks would be
institutionalized to straighten them out and protect them but now they
are just turned loose to inflict their problems on the rest of us.
Uh, and who just exactly is supposed to pay to keep all the state
defined and diagnosed mental patients locked up for the rest of their
lives?
Post by Frank
Blame should not be placed on Reganomics or illegal immigrants but the
liberal political system that allows this to happen.
Liberal??? Says the mindless drone demanding "smaller government",
"cut the budget", "cut social services".
Just who do you think is supposed to keep all these people YOU deem
mentally defective locked up, eh conservative?
Fuck me you people are dumb.
Your problem is you think most of us on the right want no government.
Yet you spew on and on about "smaller government" and severe budget
cuts especially to social services but then you bitch about all the
homeless and insist that if it wasn't for "leftists" all these people
would be locked up for the rest of their lives in nice safe mental
institutions so they couldn't bother you.
===================================================
For lefties like you, any cut to social services, including cuts in the
projected future growth in services, is severe. There is plenty of
evidence that shows that the more social services that are offered, the more
people will take advantage of them, including people who move from one state
to another.
Frank
2011-11-05 11:58:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@dudu.org
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 09:20:51 -0400, Frank
Post by Frank
Post by d***@dudu.org
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 08:03:50 -0400, Frank
Post by Frank
I thought most of the homeless were suffering from mental disorders
and/or drug and alcohol dependency. Years ago such folks would be
institutionalized to straighten them out and protect them but now they
are just turned loose to inflict their problems on the rest of us.
Uh, and who just exactly is supposed to pay to keep all the state
defined and diagnosed mental patients locked up for the rest of their
lives?
Post by Frank
Blame should not be placed on Reganomics or illegal immigrants but the
liberal political system that allows this to happen.
Liberal??? Says the mindless drone demanding "smaller government",
"cut the budget", "cut social services".
Just who do you think is supposed to keep all these people YOU deem
mentally defective locked up, eh conservative?
Fuck me you people are dumb.
Your problem is you think most of us on the right want no government.
Yet you spew on and on about "smaller government" and severe budget
cuts especially to social services but then you bitch about all the
homeless and insist that if it wasn't for "leftists" all these people
would be locked up for the rest of their lives in nice safe mental
institutions so they couldn't bother you.
If you aren't capable of seeing how incredibly fucked up that is then
you are more fucked up than I ever thought.
I know, maybe you can just skip the mental institutions and go right
on to the concentration camps and all you nice capitalists can use
them for lampshade factories. You rightists had a grand time doing
that one not too long ago. Betcha can't wait to do it again.
Responses like this make me think you belong in a mental institution ;)
DogDiesel
2011-11-01 14:11:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@dudu.org
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 08:03:50 -0400, Frank
Post by Frank
I thought most of the homeless were suffering from mental disorders
and/or drug and alcohol dependency. Years ago such folks would be
institutionalized to straighten them out and protect them but now they
are just turned loose to inflict their problems on the rest of us.
Uh, and who just exactly is supposed to pay to keep all the state
defined and diagnosed mental patients locked up for the rest of their
lives?
Post by Frank
Blame should not be placed on Reganomics or illegal immigrants but the
liberal political system that allows this to happen.
Liberal??? Says the mindless drone demanding "smaller government",
"cut the budget", "cut social services".
Just who do you think is supposed to keep all these people YOU deem
mentally defective locked up, eh conservative?
Fuck me you people are dumb.
You calling Benjamin Franklin dumb.


I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our Constitution. I
would be willing to depend on that alone for the reduction of the
administration of our government; I mean an additional article taking from
the Federal Government the power of borrowing."
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Taylor of Caroline, November 26, 1798



The Constitution does not have a balanced budget amendment largely because
of the Founders attitude that only gold and silver would be the medium of
exchange in the states as expressed in Article I, Section 10 of the
Constitution. This would automatically inhibit governments' temptation to
first create and then inflate paper money. We got off track rather quickly
and by 1797 Thomas Jefferson wrote in irritation, "I wish it were possible
to obtain a single amendment to our Constitution. I would be willing to
depend on that alone for the reduction of the administration of our
government; I mean an additional article taking from the Federal Government
the power of borrowing. I now deny their power of making paper money or
anything else a legal tender" (Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Taylor of
Caroline, November 26, 1798; reproduced in The Writings of Thomas Jefferson
v. 10, edited by Lipscomb and Bergh).

A Constitutional amendment to restrict the federal government from further
enslaving our children with debt could come from either the states or the
Congress. Since 1975 thirty-two states have petitioned Congress proposing a
balanced budget amendment. Two more, are needed to complete the 2/3rds
requirement of Article V in the Constitution forcing the ratification
process. This process necessitates the acceptance of 3/4ths of the states
which, with the flagrant abuse of our money supply on the part of the
federal government, should be a given. The beauty of this is that a spending
addicted president, whether republican or democrat, is by-passed. No
signature is sought and no veto power can be exercised. So states let us get
two more states on board.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_budget_amendment
THE COLONEL
2011-11-01 20:07:43 UTC
Permalink
I like to fuck yung homeless gurlz.
PaxPerPoten
2011-11-02 00:08:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by THE COLONEL
I like to fuck yung homeless gurlz.
Kind of like you got fucked in prison?
Stormin Mormon
2011-11-04 12:46:22 UTC
Permalink
Reaganomics was reduced taxes, and increased prosperity. I
know, I was there.

The hispanic invasion is in large part because the elected
officials keep giving tax payer dollars to illegals.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Red Cloud" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:297d8a62-ed35-409e-881d-***@u24g2000pru.googlegroups.com...


Isn't the homelessness the first reason supported by OWS?
They are the first victim of the Reaganomics Trickle Down
Theory
and the first victim of Hispanic invasion.

Ever heard of Hispanic immigrant (legal and illegals) are
taking
control of the demographic job market from the bottom up?
Obvious
reason why
homeless has gone up since Reganomics and NAFTA and sudden
growing of
Hispanic population . Elites, politician, scholar,
breeding-heart
liberal won't face that. They speak for whoever make more
profit by
any mean necessarily.
Jeff M
2011-11-04 14:29:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stormin Mormon
Reaganomics was reduced taxes, and increased prosperity. I
know, I was there.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20030729-503544.html

February 4, 2011 3:06 PM

Ronald Reagan Myth Doesn't Square with Reality

By Brian Montopoli

About 10,000 people will gather this weekend at the Ronald Reagan
Presidential Library in California to honor what would have been the
100th birthday of former President Ronald Reagan -- among them Dick
Cheney, the Beach Boys and Sarah Palin.

Reagan, who served as president from 1981 -1989 and died in 2004 at the
age of 93, is widely considered the patron saint of conservatives; ask a
prominent conservative their hero, and odds are they'll point to the
Gipper. (The adulation is so widespread that candidates at a debate last
month among the candidates to be RNC chairman were asked their hero -
"aside from President Reagan.")

Reagan is perhaps most often invoked by those who cast him as having
held the line against tax increases. Americans for Tax Reform President
Grover Norquist, for example, often points to Reagan when calling for
lower taxes and spending cuts; he says, by contrast, "tax hikes are what
politicians do when they don't have the determination or the competence
to govern." Conservatives also hail Reagan as a budget cutter willing to
make hard choices to keep spending in line.

It's certainly true that Reagan entered office as a full-throated
conservative vowing to cut both spending and taxes. And he quickly
followed through on part of that promise, passing a major reduction in
marginal tax rates. (According to author Lou Cannon, the top marginal
rate fell from 70 percent when he came into office to 28 percent when he
left.)

But following his party's losses in the 1982 election, Reagan largely
backed off his efforts at spending cuts even as he continued to offer
the small-government rhetoric that helped get him elected. In fact, he
went in the opposite direction: His creation of the department of
veterans affairs contributed to an increase in the federal workforce of
more than 60,000 people during his presidency.

And while Reagan somewhat slowed the marginal rate of growth in the
budget, it continued to increase during his time in office. So did the
debt, skyrocketing from $700 billion to $3 trillion. Then there's the
fact that after first pushing to cut Social Security benefits - and
being stymied by Congress - Reagan in 1983 agreed to a $165 billion
bailout of the program. He also massively expanded the Pentagon budget.

Meanwhile, following that initial tax cut, Reagan actually ended up
raising taxes - eleven times. That's according to former Republican Sen.
Alan Simpson, a longtime Reagan friend who co-chaired President Obama's
fiscal commission that last year offered a deficit reduction proposal.

"Ronald Reagan was never afraid to raise taxes," historian Douglas
Brinkley, who edited Reagan's diaries, told NPR. "He knew that it was
necessary at times. And so there's a false mythology out there about
Reagan as this conservative president who came in and just cut taxes and
trimmed federal spending in a dramatic way. It didn't happen that way.
It's false."

It's important to note that Reagan's tax increases did not wipe out the
effects of that initial tax cut. But they did eat up about half of it.
And as Peter Beinart points out, the 1983 payroll tax hike went to pay
for Social Security and Medicare. ("Reagan raised taxes to pay for
government-run health care," Beinart writes.) Reagan also raised the gas
tax and signed the largest corporate tax increase in history, an act
Joshua Green writes would be "utterly unimaginable for any conservative
to support today."

Reagan was not happy about raising taxes or expanding government, and we
certainly shouldn't forget that he had to work within the constraints
placed upon him by a non-compliant Congress. But that doesn't change the
fact that Reagan both increased spending and, after the initial cut,
showed a willingness to raise taxes - exactly the sort of policy
prescriptions so widely condemned by today's Reagan-reverent conservatives.

These facts have largely been lost as the right has enshrined Reagan as
its patron saint, and they may fade further amid the speeches at this
weekend's centennial celebration. But the reality is that Reagan was a
president who held firm beliefs but was also willing to work with his
ideological opponents. And that's the sort of thing that doesn't much
lend itself to mythmaking.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20030729-503544.html
Sexual Harassment Panda
2011-11-04 16:29:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stormin Mormon
Reaganomics was reduced taxes, and increased prosperity. I
know, I was there.
The hispanic invasion is in large part because the elected
officials keep giving tax payer dollars to illegals.
Aren't brown people marked bu God as evil? That's what your fucked-up church
used to claim. Do they still claim that behind closed doors?
--
http://youtu.be/OQnNH7I07RY
Ezekiel 23:20
Buster Norris (Pops a Black Eye On Sissy Dem's Ugly Faces and Laughs)
2011-11-05 02:06:35 UTC
Permalink
Summary: A homosexual Fraud goes by the name "Sexual Harassment
Panda" also "Bible Studies with Satan" and "Reverend Al." Another
classic usenet zoo monkey. Liars, once they have been exposed,
frequently revert to behavior most similar to a zoo monkey who sits in
the cage throwing feces at passersby but saying nothing of value. Note
that when you reply to a Proven Liar you encourage them to continue
lying.

[][][][][][]

The DemocRAT Hall Of Shame http://www.democrathallofshame.com/ asks
"Why do you always LIE?"

[Courtesy of Buster Norris]

On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 22:20:34 -0700, Bible Studies with Satan
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 10:15:51 -0700 (PDT), liberal
There has never been a privitization that made a
former government good or service available at a lower price to
consumer and was of better quality.
LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Before privatization the city had allowed the water system to
deteriorate to near collapse, was being fined by the EPA for violating
clean water standards, and had nearly 50% more employees working in
the water department than needed. The water department said it needed
to double water rates to solve these problems. Privatization saved the
city roughly $10 million per year, brought the system into compliance
with EPA standards, and raised rates only 10 percent to accomplish
Higher prices, not lower. Buster is a LIAR!!! LIAR!!!!!
http://waterindustry.org/Water-Facts/atlanta-1.htm
LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"The water department said it needed to double water rates....."

Double = 200%

"Privatization....... ........raised rates only 10 percent........"

10% is NOT HIGHER THAN 200%............

Posted from:
The DemocRATs Hall of Shame!
http://www.democrathallofshame.com/
PaxPerPoten
2011-11-06 22:06:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sexual Harassment Panda
Post by Stormin Mormon
Reaganomics was reduced taxes, and increased prosperity. I
know, I was there.
The hispanic invasion is in large part because the elected
officials keep giving tax payer dollars to illegals.
Aren't brown people marked bu God as evil? That's what your fucked-up church
used to claim. Do they still claim that behind closed doors?
Not being much of a bible thumper, but definitely a reader of that and
more..So where exactly did a genius like you find that so-called fact?
I do believe the Mormons consider the black people to be the offspring
of Caine. Which means that they are welcome in the Mormon church, but in
the past have not discouraged from joining the leadership. I know of no
religion that bans people because of skin color. Even Southern Baptist
that were at one time involved with the KKK don't. I guess in your role
as Eric Cartmann you can discriminate against both blacks and Jews.
Sexual Harassment Panda
2011-11-06 23:08:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by PaxPerPoten
Post by Sexual Harassment Panda
Post by Stormin Mormon
Reaganomics was reduced taxes, and increased prosperity. I
know, I was there.
The hispanic invasion is in large part because the elected
officials keep giving tax payer dollars to illegals.
Aren't brown people marked bu God as evil? That's what your fucked-up church
used to claim. Do they still claim that behind closed doors?
Not being much of a bible thumper, but definitely a reader of that and
more..So where exactly did a genius like you find that so-called fact?
I do believe the Mormons consider the black people to be the offspring
of Caine. Which means that they are welcome in the Mormon church, but in
the past have not discouraged from joining the leadership.
They were excluded "from Priesthood ordination and from participation in temple
ceremonies" until 1978.
Post by PaxPerPoten
I know of no
religion that bans people because of skin color. Even Southern Baptist
that were at one time involved with the KKK don't. I guess in your role
as Eric Cartmann you can discriminate against both blacks and Jews.
--
http://youtu.be/OQnNH7I07RY
Ezekiel 23:20
Buster Norris (Pops a Black Eye On Sissy Dem's Ugly Faces and Laughs)
2011-11-07 02:48:03 UTC
Permalink
Summary: A homosexual Fraud goes by the name "Sexual Harassment
Panda" also "Bible Studies with Satan" and "Reverend Al." Another
classic usenet zoo monkey. Liars, once they have been exposed,
frequently revert to behavior most similar to a zoo monkey who sits in
the cage throwing feces at passersby but saying nothing of value. Note
that when you reply to a Proven Liar you encourage them to continue
lying.

[][][][][][]

The DemocRAT Hall Of Shame http://www.democrathallofshame.com/ asks
"Why do you always LIE?"

[Courtesy of Buster Norris]

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 16:41:38 -0700, Sexual Harassment Panda
Several cases of anti-Semitism have been documented at various Occupy
Wall Street across the country.
It's a lie
LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Occupy protests have Jewish leaders concerned
Friday, October 28, 2011
October 26, 2011 (CHICAGO) (WLS) -- As Occupy Wall Street nears the
six-week mark, a vein of anti-Semitism flowing through the movement
has reached Chicago. Jewish leaders say they are concerned.
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/iteam&id=8407349

Anti-Semitic Occupy LA Protester Fired By School District, Media
Mostly Mum
October 20, 2011
An anti-Semitic Occupy LA protester reported by NewsBusters Sunday has
been fired by the Los Angeles Unified School District due to her
remarks.
http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/10/20/anti-semitic-occupy-la-protester-fired-school-district-media-mostly-m

Posted from:
The DemocRATs Hall of Shame!
http://www.democrathallofshame.com/
Buster Norris (Pops a Black Eye On Sissy Dem's Ugly Faces and Laughs)
2011-11-07 02:53:22 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 06 Nov 2011 15:08:01 -0800, Sexual Harassment Panda
Post by Sexual Harassment Panda
Post by PaxPerPoten
Not being much of a bible thumper, but definitely a reader of that and
more..So where exactly did a genius like you find that so-called fact?
I do believe the Mormons consider the black people to be the offspring
of Caine. Which means that they are welcome in the Mormon church, but in
the past have not discouraged from joining the leadership.
They were excluded "from Priesthood ordination and from participation in temple
ceremonies" until 1978.
LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Following the death of Joseph Smith, Jr., Mormon leaders beginning
with Brigham Young instituted a policy of excluding most people of
black African descent (regardless of actual skin color) from
Priesthood ordination and from participation in temple ceremonies.
These practices continued in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints (LDS Church) until September 30, 1978, when the highest bodies
of church leadership lifted the ban after stating they had received a
revelation."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_early_Mormonism
PaxPerPoten
2011-11-07 23:32:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sexual Harassment Panda
Post by PaxPerPoten
Post by Sexual Harassment Panda
Post by Stormin Mormon
Reaganomics was reduced taxes, and increased prosperity. I
know, I was there.
The hispanic invasion is in large part because the elected
officials keep giving tax payer dollars to illegals.
Aren't brown people marked bu God as evil? That's what your fucked-up church
used to claim. Do they still claim that behind closed doors?
Not being much of a bible thumper, but definitely a reader of that and
more..So where exactly did a genius like you find that so-called fact?
I do believe the Mormons consider the black people to be the offspring
of Caine. Which means that they are welcome in the Mormon church, but in
the past have been discouraged from joining the leadership.
They were excluded "from Priesthood ordination and from participation in temple
ceremonies" until 1978.
So then you agree that they are not discriminated against? Which merely
shows that you don't really have a valid opinion on anything or you
wouldn't have posted that tripe in the first place.
Post by Sexual Harassment Panda
Post by PaxPerPoten
I know of no
religion that bans people because of skin color. Even Southern Baptist
that were at one time involved with the KKK don't. I guess in your role
as Eric Cartmann you can discriminate against both blacks and Jews.
Winston_Smith
2011-11-04 22:48:04 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 08:46:22 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
Post by Stormin Mormon
Reaganomics was reduced taxes, and increased prosperity. I
know, I was there.
Then you also remember the soaring deficits.
robert bowman
2011-11-05 01:59:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winston_Smith
Then you also remember the soaring deficits.
Selective memory is a grand thing.
PaxPerPoten
2011-11-06 22:07:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winston_Smith
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 08:46:22 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
Post by Stormin Mormon
Reaganomics was reduced taxes, and increased prosperity. I
know, I was there.
Then you also remember the soaring deficits.
I remember that timers were a Hell of a lot better then now.
Winston_Smith
2011-11-06 22:24:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by PaxPerPoten
Post by Winston_Smith
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 08:46:22 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
Post by Stormin Mormon
Reaganomics was reduced taxes, and increased prosperity. I
know, I was there.
Then you also remember the soaring deficits.
I remember that timers were a Hell of a lot better then now.
They certainly were. It's not hard to have a long party if you have
an unlimited credit card and the kids and grand kids have to pay the
bill.

Sadly, the bill is being presented for payment at this moment.

FDR said we could NOT have guns and butter. In that he was right. (In
some ways he was actually conservative.) Every president since has
openly and proudly declared we COULD have both. They have all been
proven wrong with a long recession - approaching depression - as an
aftermath.
Stormin Mormon
2011-11-07 00:54:38 UTC
Permalink
I'd cheerfully go back to the days when taxes were
managable, and we didn't live in fear of government
agencies. "Don't touch my junk" may be the rally cry of this
decade, "Lets Roll" being last decade's rally cry.

Next decade, the rally cry may be "Please, Mr. Government
agent, don't debit from my EBT money".
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
Post by Winston_Smith
Post by Stormin Mormon
Reaganomics was reduced taxes, and increased prosperity.
I
know, I was there.
Then you also remember the soaring deficits.
I remember that timers were a Hell of a lot better then now.
Strabo
2011-11-07 01:28:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stormin Mormon
I'd cheerfully go back to the days when taxes were
managable, and we didn't live in fear of government
agencies. "Don't touch my junk" may be the rally cry of this
decade, "Lets Roll" being last decade's rally cry.
Next decade, the rally cry may be "Please, Mr. Government
agent, don't debit from my EBT money".
The power brokers don't want you to have money. Gives
you too much freedom.

Left to the bankers and socialists, all you'll have is a
government-partnership account and a debit card.

The cashless society freaks are hard at work to
enact their vision of a global plantation.
PaxPerPoten
2011-11-07 23:42:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stormin Mormon
I'd cheerfully go back to the days when taxes were
managable, and we didn't live in fear of government
agencies. "Don't touch my junk" may be the rally cry of this
decade, "Lets Roll" being last decade's rally cry.
Next decade, the rally cry may be "Please, Mr. Government
agent, don't debit from my EBT money"
The wise ones will hunker down in silence so as not to attract
attention. These will be the survivors. And will be well armed!@
.
Stormin Mormon
2011-11-08 15:11:02 UTC
Permalink
Pastor Martin Niemoler commented on just that concept.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/First_they_came%E2%80%A6
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
Post by Stormin Mormon
Next decade, the rally cry may be "Please, Mr. Government
agent, don't debit from my EBT money"
The wise ones will hunker down in silence so as not to
attract
attention. These will be the survivors. And will be well
armed!@
CS
2011-11-05 12:52:30 UTC
Permalink
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message news:j90mu0$obj$***@dont-email.me...

Reaganomics was reduced taxes, and increased prosperity. I
know, I was there.

The hispanic invasion is in large part because the elected
officials keep giving tax payer dollars to illegals.
--
~~~~~~~~

Well, of the three replies, you got one posting other people's work because
he can't think for himself, one who attacks your church because he can't
attack your point, and one who brings up the higher deficits, yet forgets
that those were soon paid off with the booming economy Reagan's policies are
responsible for, as well as the fact that the USSR was also spending like
crazy to build weapons to kill us with, and Reagan's administration kicked
their ass.

The worst thing about Reagan's policies was the term "Trickle Down
Economics." Nobody wants their wealth to "trickle down" from anywhere. It
just sounds bad, even though the policies themselves were sound.

Singling out illegal aliens is misguided, though. Illegals make up far less
than the 47% of the population that doesn't pay taxes.

We have too many moochers in this country.

CS
DogDiesel
2011-11-01 07:05:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hisler
A blistering essay by by Barbara Ehrenreich. No one could have said it
better.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/10/23-3
Published on Sunday, October 23, 2011 by TomDispatch.com
Throw Them Out With the Trash: Why Homelessness Is Becoming an Occupy Wall
Street Issue
Published on Sunday, October 23, 2011 by TomDispatch.com
Throw Them Out With the Trash: Why Homelessness Is Becoming an Occupy Wall
Street Issue
by Barbara Ehrenreich
As anyone knows who has ever had to set up a military encampment or build
a village from the ground up, occupations pose staggering logistical
problems. Large numbers of people must be fed and kept reasonably warm and
dry. Trash has to be removed; medical care and rudimentary security
provided -- to which ends a dozen or more committees may toil night and
day. But for the individual occupier, one problem often overshadows
everything else, including job loss, the destruction of the middle class,
and the reign of the 1%. And that is the single question: Where am I going
to pee?
Some of the Occupy Wall Street encampments now spreading across the U.S.
have access to Port-o-Potties (Freedom Plaza in Washington, D.C.) or,
better yet, restrooms with sinks and running water (Fort Wayne, Indiana).
Others require their residents to forage on their own. At Zuccotti Park,
just blocks from Wall Street, this means long waits for the restroom at a
nearby Burger King or somewhat shorter ones at a Starbucks a block away.
At McPherson Square in D.C., a twenty-something occupier showed me the
pizza parlor where she can cop a pee during the hours it’s open, as well
as the alley where she crouches late at night. Anyone with
restroom-related issues -- arising from age, pregnancy, prostate problems,
or irritable bowel syndrome -- should prepare to join the revolution in
diapers.
Of course, political protesters do not face the challenges of urban
camping alone. Homeless people confront the same issues every day: how to
scrape together meals, keep warm at night by covering themselves with
cardboard or tarp, and relieve themselves without committing a crime.
Public restrooms are sparse in American cities -- "as if the need to go to
the bathroom does not exist," travel expert Arthur Frommer once observed.
And yet to yield to bladder pressure is to risk arrest. A report entitled
“Criminalizing Crisis,” to be released later this month by the National
Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty, recounts the following story from
"Toward the end of 2010, a family of two parents and three children that
had been experiencing homelessness for a year and a half applied for a
2-bedroom apartment. The day before a scheduled meeting with the apartment
manager during the final stages of acquiring the lease, the father of the
family was arrested for public urination. The arrest occurred at an hour
when no public restrooms were available for use. Due to the arrest, the
father was unable to make the appointment with the apartment manager and
the property was rented out to another person. As of March 2011, the
family was still homeless and searching for housing."
What the Occupy Wall Streeters are beginning to discover, and homeless
people have known all along, is that most ordinary, biologically necessary
activities are illegal when performed in American streets --
not just peeing, but sitting, lying down, and sleeping. While the laws
vary from city to city, one of the harshest is in Sarasota, Florida, which
passed an ordinance in 2005 that makes it illegal to “engage in digging or
earth-breaking activities” -- that is, to build a latrine --
cook, make a fire, or be asleep and “when awakened state that he or she
has no other place to live.”
It is illegal, in other words, to be homeless or live outdoors for any
other reason. It should be noted, though, that there are no laws requiring
cities to provide food, shelter, or restrooms for their indigent citizens.
The current prohibition on homelessness began to take shape in the 1980s,
along with the ferocious growth of the financial industry (Wall Street and
all its tributaries throughout the nation). That was also the era in which
we stopped being a nation that manufactured much beyond weightless,
invisible “financial products,” leaving the old industrial working class
to carve out a livelihood at places like Wal-Mart.
As it turned out, the captains of the new “casino economy” -- the stock
brokers and investment bankers -- were highly sensitive, one might say
finicky, individuals, easily offended by having to step over the homeless
in the streets or bypass them in commuter train stations. In an economy
where a centimillionaire could turn into a billionaire overnight, the poor
and unwashed were a major buzzkill. Starting with Mayor Rudy Giuliani in
New York, city after city passed “broken windows” or “quality of life”
ordinances making it dangerous for the homeless to loiter or, in some
cases, even look “indigent,” in public spaces.
No one has yet tallied all the suffering occasioned by this crackdown --
the deaths from cold and exposure -- but “Criminalizing Crisis” offers
"During daytime hours, when she could not be inside of a shelter, she
attempted to spend time in a museum and was told to leave. She then
attempted to sit on a bench outside the museum and was again told to
relocate. In several other instances, still during her pregnancy, the
woman was told that she could not sit in a local park during the day
because she would be ‘squatting.’ In early 2011, about six months into her
pregnancy, the homeless woman began to feel unwell, went to a hospital,
and delivered a stillborn child."
Well before Tahrir Square was a twinkle in anyone’s eye, and even before
the recent recession, homeless Americans had begun to act in their own
defense, creating organized encampments, usually tent cities, in vacant
lots or wooded areas. These communities often feature various elementary
forms of self-governance: food from local charities has to be distributed,
latrines dug, rules -- such as no drugs, weapons, or violence -- enforced.
With all due credit to the Egyptian democracy movement, the Spanish
indignados, and rebels all over the world, tent cities are the domestic
progenitors of the American occupation movement.
There is nothing “political” about these settlements of the homeless --
no signs denouncing greed or visits from leftwing luminaries -- but they
have been treated with far less official forbearance than the occupation
encampments of the “American autumn.” LA’s Skid Row endures constant
police harassment, for example, but when it rained, Mayor Antonio
Villaraigosa had ponchos distributed to nearby Occupy LA.
All over the country, in the last few years, police have moved in on the
tent cities of the homeless, one by one, from Seattle to Wooster,
Sacramento to Providence, in raids that often leave the former occupants
without even their minimal possessions. In Chattanooga, Tennessee, last
summer, a charity outreach worker explained the forcible dispersion of a
local tent city by saying, “The city will not tolerate a tent city. That’s
been made very clear to us. The camps have to be out of sight.”
What occupiers from all walks of life are discovering, at least every time
they contemplate taking a leak, is that to be homeless in America is to
live like a fugitive. The destitute are our own native-born “illegals,”
facing prohibitions on the most basic activities of survival. They are not
supposed to soil public space with their urine, their feces, or their
exhausted bodies. Nor are they supposed to spoil the landscape with their
unusual wardrobe choices or body odors. They are, in fact, supposed to
die, and preferably to do so without leaving a corpse for the dwindling
public sector to transport, process, and burn.
But the occupiers are not from all walks of life, just from those walks
that slope downwards -- from debt, joblessness, and foreclosure --
leading eventually to pauperism and the streets. Some of the present
occupiers were homeless to start with, attracted to the occupation
encampments by the prospect of free food and at least temporary shelter
from police harassment. Many others are drawn from the borderline-homeless
“nouveau poor,” and normally encamp on friends’ couches or parents’
folding beds.
In Portland, Austin, and Philadelphia, the Occupy Wall Street movement is
taking up the cause of the homeless as its own, which of course it is.
Homelessness is not a side issue unconnected to plutocracy and greed. It’s
where we’re all eventually headed -- the 99%, or at least the 70%, of us,
every debt-loaded college grad, out-of-work school teacher, and
impoverished senior -- unless this revolution succeeds.
© 2011 Barbara Ehrenreich
Its unfortunate, But yes its illegal to be homeless. Its damn near illegal
to be a homesteader. Its damn near illegal to be on your own. But the
Occupy wallstreet idiots want communism and nothing more. And certainly the
left, The homewreckers , feminist, and family destroyers have created a self
perpetuating problem that they use against us. Then they want to be paid by
the same entity that makes being homeless illegal. The government. They want
to whine and bitch but have not a clue or a plan. Except make everyone
poorer, and destitute, and wreck everything , for change. good, bad or
indifferent. Then complain about the problems we create. They don't
want to work or participate in the trading game. They are driven by by
their lack of an education, and envy. And they want confiscation and
reallocation. Which again is illegal.

There's real homeless and noveau homeless. Wallstreet occupiers are
nothing more then America the free, haters.
Hisler
2011-11-01 07:29:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by DogDiesel
Post by Hisler
A blistering essay by by Barbara Ehrenreich. No one could have said it
better.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/10/23-3
Published on Sunday, October 23, 2011 by TomDispatch.com
Throw Them Out With the Trash: Why Homelessness Is Becoming an Occupy Wall
Street Issue
Published on Sunday, October 23, 2011 by TomDispatch.com
Throw Them Out With the Trash: Why Homelessness Is Becoming an Occupy Wall
Street Issue
by Barbara Ehrenreich
As anyone knows who has ever had to set up a military encampment or build
a village from the ground up, occupations pose staggering logistical
problems. Large numbers of people must be fed and kept reasonably warm and
dry. Trash has to be removed; medical care and rudimentary security
provided -- to which ends a dozen or more committees may toil night and
day. But for the individual occupier, one problem often overshadows
everything else, including job loss, the destruction of the middle class,
and the reign of the 1%. And that is the single question: Where am I going
to pee?
Some of the Occupy Wall Street encampments now spreading across the U.S.
have access to Port-o-Potties (Freedom Plaza in Washington, D.C.) or,
better yet, restrooms with sinks and running water (Fort Wayne, Indiana).
Others require their residents to forage on their own. At Zuccotti Park,
just blocks from Wall Street, this means long waits for the restroom at a
nearby Burger King or somewhat shorter ones at a Starbucks a block away.
At McPherson Square in D.C., a twenty-something occupier showed me the
pizza parlor where she can cop a pee during the hours it’s open, as well
as the alley where she crouches late at night. Anyone with
restroom-related issues -- arising from age, pregnancy, prostate problems,
or irritable bowel syndrome -- should prepare to join the revolution in
diapers.
Of course, political protesters do not face the challenges of urban
camping alone. Homeless people confront the same issues every day: how to
scrape together meals, keep warm at night by covering themselves with
cardboard or tarp, and relieve themselves without committing a crime.
Public restrooms are sparse in American cities -- "as if the need to go to
the bathroom does not exist," travel expert Arthur Frommer once observed.
And yet to yield to bladder pressure is to risk arrest. A report entitled
“Criminalizing Crisis,” to be released later this month by the National
Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty, recounts the following story from
"Toward the end of 2010, a family of two parents and three children that
had been experiencing homelessness for a year and a half applied for a
2-bedroom apartment. The day before a scheduled meeting with the apartment
manager during the final stages of acquiring the lease, the father of the
family was arrested for public urination. The arrest occurred at an hour
when no public restrooms were available for use. Due to the arrest, the
father was unable to make the appointment with the apartment manager and
the property was rented out to another person. As of March 2011, the
family was still homeless and searching for housing."
What the Occupy Wall Streeters are beginning to discover, and homeless
people have known all along, is that most ordinary, biologically necessary
activities are illegal when performed in American streets --
not just peeing, but sitting, lying down, and sleeping. While the laws
vary from city to city, one of the harshest is in Sarasota, Florida, which
passed an ordinance in 2005 that makes it illegal to “engage in digging or
earth-breaking activities” -- that is, to build a latrine --
cook, make a fire, or be asleep and “when awakened state that he or she
has no other place to live.”
It is illegal, in other words, to be homeless or live outdoors for any
other reason. It should be noted, though, that there are no laws requiring
cities to provide food, shelter, or restrooms for their indigent citizens.
The current prohibition on homelessness began to take shape in the 1980s,
along with the ferocious growth of the financial industry (Wall Street and
all its tributaries throughout the nation). That was also the era in which
we stopped being a nation that manufactured much beyond weightless,
invisible “financial products,” leaving the old industrial working class
to carve out a livelihood at places like Wal-Mart.
As it turned out, the captains of the new “casino economy” -- the stock
brokers and investment bankers -- were highly sensitive, one might say
finicky, individuals, easily offended by having to step over the homeless
in the streets or bypass them in commuter train stations. In an economy
where a centimillionaire could turn into a billionaire overnight, the poor
and unwashed were a major buzzkill. Starting with Mayor Rudy Giuliani in
New York, city after city passed “broken windows” or “quality of life”
ordinances making it dangerous for the homeless to loiter or, in some
cases, even look “indigent,” in public spaces.
No one has yet tallied all the suffering occasioned by this crackdown --
the deaths from cold and exposure -- but “Criminalizing Crisis” offers
"During daytime hours, when she could not be inside of a shelter, she
attempted to spend time in a museum and was told to leave. She then
attempted to sit on a bench outside the museum and was again told to
relocate. In several other instances, still during her pregnancy, the
woman was told that she could not sit in a local park during the day
because she would be ‘squatting.’ In early 2011, about six months into her
pregnancy, the homeless woman began to feel unwell, went to a hospital,
and delivered a stillborn child."
Well before Tahrir Square was a twinkle in anyone’s eye, and even before
the recent recession, homeless Americans had begun to act in their own
defense, creating organized encampments, usually tent cities, in vacant
lots or wooded areas. These communities often feature various elementary
forms of self-governance: food from local charities has to be distributed,
latrines dug, rules -- such as no drugs, weapons, or violence -- enforced.
With all due credit to the Egyptian democracy movement, the Spanish
indignados, and rebels all over the world, tent cities are the domestic
progenitors of the American occupation movement.
There is nothing “political” about these settlements of the homeless --
no signs denouncing greed or visits from leftwing luminaries -- but they
have been treated with far less official forbearance than the occupation
encampments of the “American autumn.” LA’s Skid Row endures constant
police harassment, for example, but when it rained, Mayor Antonio
Villaraigosa had ponchos distributed to nearby Occupy LA.
All over the country, in the last few years, police have moved in on the
tent cities of the homeless, one by one, from Seattle to Wooster,
Sacramento to Providence, in raids that often leave the former occupants
without even their minimal possessions. In Chattanooga, Tennessee, last
summer, a charity outreach worker explained the forcible dispersion of a
local tent city by saying, “The city will not tolerate a tent city. That’s
been made very clear to us. The camps have to be out of sight.”
What occupiers from all walks of life are discovering, at least every time
they contemplate taking a leak, is that to be homeless in America is to
live like a fugitive. The destitute are our own native-born “illegals,”
facing prohibitions on the most basic activities of survival. They are not
supposed to soil public space with their urine, their feces, or their
exhausted bodies. Nor are they supposed to spoil the landscape with their
unusual wardrobe choices or body odors. They are, in fact, supposed to
die, and preferably to do so without leaving a corpse for the dwindling
public sector to transport, process, and burn.
But the occupiers are not from all walks of life, just from those walks
that slope downwards -- from debt, joblessness, and foreclosure --
leading eventually to pauperism and the streets. Some of the present
occupiers were homeless to start with, attracted to the occupation
encampments by the prospect of free food and at least temporary shelter
from police harassment. Many others are drawn from the borderline-homeless
“nouveau poor,” and normally encamp on friends’ couches or parents’
folding beds.
In Portland, Austin, and Philadelphia, the Occupy Wall Street movement is
taking up the cause of the homeless as its own, which of course it is.
Homelessness is not a side issue unconnected to plutocracy and greed. It’s
where we’re all eventually headed -- the 99%, or at least the 70%, of us,
every debt-loaded college grad, out-of-work school teacher, and
impoverished senior -- unless this revolution succeeds.
© 2011 Barbara Ehrenreich
Its unfortunate, But yes its illegal to be homeless. Its damn near illegal
to be a homesteader. Its damn near illegal to be on your own. But the
Occupy wallstreet idiots want communism and nothing more. And certainly the
left, The homewreckers , feminist, and family destroyers have created a self
perpetuating problem that they use against us.
I had not thought of it that way, but I think you're on to something.
Post by DogDiesel
Then they want to be paid by
the same entity that makes being homeless illegal. The government. They want
to whine and bitch but have not a clue or a plan. Except make everyone
poorer, and destitute, and wreck everything , for change. good, bad or
indifferent. Then complain about the problems we create. They don't
want to work or participate in the trading game. They are driven by by
their lack of an education, and envy. And they want confiscation and
reallocation. Which again is illegal.
That's what Wall Street has gotten since the first bailout in the final
days of the Bush presidency. They got confiscation and reallocation.
Put another way, they looted the wealth of America.
Post by DogDiesel
There's real homeless and noveau homeless. Wallstreet occupiers are
nothing more then America the free, haters.
Judge not, lest ye be judged.
DogDiesel
2011-11-01 09:42:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hisler
Post by DogDiesel
Post by Hisler
A blistering essay by by Barbara Ehrenreich. No one could have said it
better.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/10/23-3
Published on Sunday, October 23, 2011 by TomDispatch.com
Throw Them Out With the Trash: Why Homelessness Is Becoming an Occupy Wall
Street Issue
Published on Sunday, October 23, 2011 by TomDispatch.com
Throw Them Out With the Trash: Why Homelessness Is Becoming an Occupy Wall
Street Issue
by Barbara Ehrenreich
As anyone knows who has ever had to set up a military encampment or build
a village from the ground up, occupations pose staggering logistical
problems. Large numbers of people must be fed and kept reasonably warm and
dry. Trash has to be removed; medical care and rudimentary security
provided -- to which ends a dozen or more committees may toil night and
day. But for the individual occupier, one problem often overshadows
everything else, including job loss, the destruction of the middle class,
and the reign of the 1%. And that is the single question: Where am I going
to pee?
Some of the Occupy Wall Street encampments now spreading across the U.S.
have access to Port-o-Potties (Freedom Plaza in Washington, D.C.) or,
better yet, restrooms with sinks and running water (Fort Wayne, Indiana).
Others require their residents to forage on their own. At Zuccotti Park,
just blocks from Wall Street, this means long waits for the restroom at a
nearby Burger King or somewhat shorter ones at a Starbucks a block away.
At McPherson Square in D.C., a twenty-something occupier showed me the
pizza parlor where she can cop a pee during the hours it’s open, as well
as the alley where she crouches late at night. Anyone with
restroom-related issues -- arising from age, pregnancy, prostate problems,
or irritable bowel syndrome -- should prepare to join the revolution in
diapers.
Of course, political protesters do not face the challenges of urban
camping alone. Homeless people confront the same issues every day: how to
scrape together meals, keep warm at night by covering themselves with
cardboard or tarp, and relieve themselves without committing a crime.
Public restrooms are sparse in American cities -- "as if the need to go to
the bathroom does not exist," travel expert Arthur Frommer once observed.
And yet to yield to bladder pressure is to risk arrest. A report entitled
“Criminalizing Crisis,” to be released later this month by the National
Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty, recounts the following story from
"Toward the end of 2010, a family of two parents and three children that
had been experiencing homelessness for a year and a half applied for a
2-bedroom apartment. The day before a scheduled meeting with the apartment
manager during the final stages of acquiring the lease, the father of the
family was arrested for public urination. The arrest occurred at an hour
when no public restrooms were available for use. Due to the arrest, the
father was unable to make the appointment with the apartment manager and
the property was rented out to another person. As of March 2011, the
family was still homeless and searching for housing."
What the Occupy Wall Streeters are beginning to discover, and homeless
people have known all along, is that most ordinary, biologically necessary
activities are illegal when performed in American streets --
not just peeing, but sitting, lying down, and sleeping. While the laws
vary from city to city, one of the harshest is in Sarasota, Florida, which
passed an ordinance in 2005 that makes it illegal to “engage in digging or
earth-breaking activities” -- that is, to build a latrine --
cook, make a fire, or be asleep and “when awakened state that he or she
has no other place to live.”
It is illegal, in other words, to be homeless or live outdoors for any
other reason. It should be noted, though, that there are no laws requiring
cities to provide food, shelter, or restrooms for their indigent citizens.
The current prohibition on homelessness began to take shape in the 1980s,
along with the ferocious growth of the financial industry (Wall Street and
all its tributaries throughout the nation). That was also the era in which
we stopped being a nation that manufactured much beyond weightless,
invisible “financial products,” leaving the old industrial working class
to carve out a livelihood at places like Wal-Mart.
As it turned out, the captains of the new “casino economy” -- the stock
brokers and investment bankers -- were highly sensitive, one might say
finicky, individuals, easily offended by having to step over the homeless
in the streets or bypass them in commuter train stations. In an economy
where a centimillionaire could turn into a billionaire overnight, the poor
and unwashed were a major buzzkill. Starting with Mayor Rudy Giuliani in
New York, city after city passed “broken windows” or “quality of life”
ordinances making it dangerous for the homeless to loiter or, in some
cases, even look “indigent,” in public spaces.
No one has yet tallied all the suffering occasioned by this crackdown --
the deaths from cold and exposure -- but “Criminalizing Crisis” offers
"During daytime hours, when she could not be inside of a shelter, she
attempted to spend time in a museum and was told to leave. She then
attempted to sit on a bench outside the museum and was again told to
relocate. In several other instances, still during her pregnancy, the
woman was told that she could not sit in a local park during the day
because she would be ‘squatting.’ In early 2011, about six months into her
pregnancy, the homeless woman began to feel unwell, went to a hospital,
and delivered a stillborn child."
Well before Tahrir Square was a twinkle in anyone’s eye, and even before
the recent recession, homeless Americans had begun to act in their own
defense, creating organized encampments, usually tent cities, in vacant
lots or wooded areas. These communities often feature various elementary
forms of self-governance: food from local charities has to be distributed,
latrines dug, rules -- such as no drugs, weapons, or violence -- enforced.
With all due credit to the Egyptian democracy movement, the Spanish
indignados, and rebels all over the world, tent cities are the domestic
progenitors of the American occupation movement.
There is nothing “political” about these settlements of the homeless --
no signs denouncing greed or visits from leftwing luminaries -- but they
have been treated with far less official forbearance than the occupation
encampments of the “American autumn.” LA’s Skid Row endures constant
police harassment, for example, but when it rained, Mayor Antonio
Villaraigosa had ponchos distributed to nearby Occupy LA.
All over the country, in the last few years, police have moved in on the
tent cities of the homeless, one by one, from Seattle to Wooster,
Sacramento to Providence, in raids that often leave the former occupants
without even their minimal possessions. In Chattanooga, Tennessee, last
summer, a charity outreach worker explained the forcible dispersion of a
local tent city by saying, “The city will not tolerate a tent city. That’s
been made very clear to us. The camps have to be out of sight.”
What occupiers from all walks of life are discovering, at least every time
they contemplate taking a leak, is that to be homeless in America is to
live like a fugitive. The destitute are our own native-born “illegals,”
facing prohibitions on the most basic activities of survival. They are not
supposed to soil public space with their urine, their feces, or their
exhausted bodies. Nor are they supposed to spoil the landscape with their
unusual wardrobe choices or body odors. They are, in fact, supposed to
die, and preferably to do so without leaving a corpse for the dwindling
public sector to transport, process, and burn.
But the occupiers are not from all walks of life, just from those walks
that slope downwards -- from debt, joblessness, and foreclosure --
leading eventually to pauperism and the streets. Some of the present
occupiers were homeless to start with, attracted to the occupation
encampments by the prospect of free food and at least temporary shelter
from police harassment. Many others are drawn from the
borderline-homeless
“nouveau poor,” and normally encamp on friends’ couches or parents’
folding beds.
In Portland, Austin, and Philadelphia, the Occupy Wall Street movement is
taking up the cause of the homeless as its own, which of course it is.
Homelessness is not a side issue unconnected to plutocracy and greed. It’s
where we’re all eventually headed -- the 99%, or at least the 70%, of us,
every debt-loaded college grad, out-of-work school teacher, and
impoverished senior -- unless this revolution succeeds.
© 2011 Barbara Ehrenreich
Its unfortunate, But yes its illegal to be homeless. Its damn near illegal
to be a homesteader. Its damn near illegal to be on your own. But the
Occupy wallstreet idiots want communism and nothing more. And certainly the
left, The homewreckers , feminist, and family destroyers have created a self
perpetuating problem that they use against us.
I had not thought of it that way, but I think you're on to something.
Post by DogDiesel
Then they want to be paid by
the same entity that makes being homeless illegal. The government. They want
to whine and bitch but have not a clue or a plan. Except make everyone
poorer, and destitute, and wreck everything , for change. good, bad or
indifferent. Then complain about the problems we create. They don't
want to work or participate in the trading game. They are driven by by
their lack of an education, and envy. And they want confiscation and
reallocation. Which again is illegal.
That's what Wall Street has gotten since the first bailout in the final
days of the Bush presidency. They got confiscation and reallocation. Put
another way, they looted the wealth of America.
No, no , no. The Federal government looted America. And gave it to
wallstreet. Wallstreet didnt decide we have to bail them. The Federal
government did. We didnt decide on obama care . For foreigners. The
Federal government did. We didnt decide to open our borders , The Federal
government did. And to everyone, who voted for expanding Federal control
of our lives. For cash. Wallstreet took nothing from anyone. Who didnt
volentarily give it to them. Nobody forced anyone to participate in any
tading or exxon either. But the gubment took from All Americans, and
gave to who they decided is getting the cash.
Im a firm believer in no bailouts. bailouts and stimulus is nothing more
then thievery. in exchange for inflation , that they call stimulus.

The problem is the federal government has created a playing field , that
American businesses cant operate in. And the American people cant get
wealthier in. And thewn decided to bail them for compensation. For the
right to do so. Its no defferent then Obama care. We made the cost of
things unaffordable. So take what we give instead.
We cant do it cheaper or better unless we force everyone to
participate. Until a time comes later when we can reduce services and force
you to die .By denying care. To compensate for inflation we created in the
first place., Well , Bullshit. Oh labor is unaffordable because we
wrecked the currency. Ok businesses, go to China instead. NAFTA and theWTO
and inflation we create. Are wrecking manufacturing. Ok heres cheap products
from elsewhere. To help hide the fact we fucked you opver until its too
late.

The government cant stimulate anything by spending. The inflation it created
overides eveything. And the currency it wrecks overides everything.
Nothing is too big to fail. If its failing and its big. Let it close. It
will be that much better in the long run. But the bottom line is
manufacturing has closed because it cant afford the inflation the gubment
created to shut down manufacturing in America.
Post by Hisler
Post by DogDiesel
There's real homeless and noveau homeless. Wallstreet occupiers are
nothing more then America the free, haters.
Judge not, lest ye be judged.
irresponsible people love that rule

Competent people dont.
d***@dudu.org
2011-11-01 12:21:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by DogDiesel
There's real homeless and noveau homeless. Wallstreet occupiers are
nothing more then America the free, haters.
Why don't you pathetic, whining dumbass losers take your hatred and
ignorance elsewhere. This is supposed to be a survival group where
discussions of practical survival techniques is supposed to be the
norm, not the exception. But horribly manipulated and uninformed
losers like you and the Mormon Moron have turned it into a whine and
cheese party where you can't do anything but bitch and ask stupid
questions. So unless you are capable of proving you actually have a
clue and grasp of reality take your incessing pathetic bullshit
elsewhere. And take mr flashlight fetish with you.
CS
2011-11-01 13:15:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by DogDiesel
There's real homeless and noveau homeless. Wallstreet occupiers are
nothing more then America the free, haters.
Why don't you pathetic, whining dumbass losers take your hatred and
ignorance elsewhere. This is supposed to be a survival group where
discussions of practical survival techniques is supposed to be the
norm, not the exception. But horribly manipulated and uninformed
losers like you and the Mormon Moron have turned it into a whine and
cheese party where you can't do anything but bitch and ask stupid
questions. So unless you are capable of proving you actually have a
clue and grasp of reality take your incessing pathetic bullshit
elsewhere. And take mr flashlight fetish with you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My, such anger and hatred. You must be so enraged that you can't comprehend
this thread.

The OWS issue is real. Of course I don't agree much with this Barbara
Ehrenreich idiot, but dealing with survival in cities is an important issue.
There are places where it is literally illegal to pee, much less shit, even
if your not homeless. When no local merchants allow their restrooms to be
used by the public, and don't hesitate to call the cops if they see you
pissing in an alley, just stopping for gas can get dicey.

The irony here is, you bitch about hatred, then you heap it upon others,
attacking their religion, hobbies, and whatever else.

Sounds like The Left to me. Intolerant, racist, hateful.

Go fire up a doobie, grab some munchies, and watch cartoons.

It'll do you good.

CS
d***@dudu.org
2011-11-01 13:28:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by DogDiesel
There's real homeless and noveau homeless. Wallstreet occupiers are
nothing more then America the free, haters.
Why don't you pathetic, whining dumbass losers take your hatred and
ignorance elsewhere. This is supposed to be a survival group where
discussions of practical survival techniques is supposed to be the
norm, not the exception. But horribly manipulated and uninformed
losers like you and the Mormon Moron have turned it into a whine and
cheese party where you can't do anything but bitch and ask stupid
questions. So unless you are capable of proving you actually have a
clue and grasp of reality take your incessing pathetic bullshit
elsewhere. And take mr flashlight fetish with you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My, such anger and hatred. You must be so enraged that you can't comprehend
this thread.
The OWS issue is real. Of course I don't agree much with this Barbara
Ehrenreich idiot, but dealing with survival in cities is an important issue.
There are places where it is literally illegal to pee, much less shit, even
if your not homeless. When no local merchants allow their restrooms to be
used by the public, and don't hesitate to call the cops if they see you
pissing in an alley, just stopping for gas can get dicey.
The irony here is, you bitch about hatred, then you heap it upon others,
attacking their religion, hobbies, and whatever else.
What goes around comes around.
Post by d***@dudu.org
Sounds like The Left to me. Intolerant, racist, hateful.
This is supposed to be a survivalist group, not a right wing bitch and
whine about the "leftists" group. Find somewhere else to vent
ignorance and then we can keep this group to survival topics.
Steve
2011-11-01 13:41:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by DogDiesel
There's real homeless and noveau homeless. Wallstreet occupiers are
nothing more then America the free, haters.
Why don't you pathetic, whining dumbass losers take your hatred and
ignorance elsewhere. This is supposed to be a survival group where
discussions of practical survival techniques is supposed to be the
norm, not the exception. But horribly manipulated and uninformed
losers like you and the Mormon Moron have turned it into a whine and
cheese party where you can't do anything but bitch and ask stupid
questions. So unless you are capable of proving you actually have a
clue and grasp of reality take your incessing pathetic bullshit
elsewhere. And take mr flashlight fetish with you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My, such anger and hatred. You must be so enraged that you can't comprehend
this thread.
The OWS issue is real. Of course I don't agree much with this Barbara
Ehrenreich idiot, but dealing with survival in cities is an important issue.
There are places where it is literally illegal to pee, much less shit, even
if your not homeless. When no local merchants allow their restrooms to be
used by the public, and don't hesitate to call the cops if they see you
pissing in an alley, just stopping for gas can get dicey.
The irony here is, you bitch about hatred, then you heap it upon others,
attacking their religion, hobbies, and whatever else.
What goes around comes around.
Post by d***@dudu.org
Sounds like The Left to me. Intolerant, racist, hateful.
This is supposed to be a survivalist group, not a right wing bitch and
whine about the "leftists" group. Find somewhere else to vent
ignorance and then we can keep this group to survival topics.
survival topics... heh, heh, heh....
DogDiesel
2011-11-01 14:21:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by DogDiesel
There's real homeless and noveau homeless. Wallstreet occupiers are
nothing more then America the free, haters.
Why don't you pathetic, whining dumbass losers take your hatred and
ignorance elsewhere. This is supposed to be a survival group where
discussions of practical survival techniques is supposed to be the
norm, not the exception. But horribly manipulated and uninformed
losers like you and the Mormon Moron have turned it into a whine and
cheese party where you can't do anything but bitch and ask stupid
questions. So unless you are capable of proving you actually have a
clue and grasp of reality take your incessing pathetic bullshit
elsewhere. And take mr flashlight fetish with you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My, such anger and hatred. You must be so enraged that you can't comprehend
this thread.
The OWS issue is real. Of course I don't agree much with this Barbara
Ehrenreich idiot, but dealing with survival in cities is an important issue.
There are places where it is literally illegal to pee, much less shit, even
if your not homeless. When no local merchants allow their restrooms to be
used by the public, and don't hesitate to call the cops if they see you
pissing in an alley, just stopping for gas can get dicey.
The irony here is, you bitch about hatred, then you heap it upon others,
attacking their religion, hobbies, and whatever else.
What goes around comes around.
Post by d***@dudu.org
Sounds like The Left to me. Intolerant, racist, hateful.
This is supposed to be a survivalist group, not a right wing bitch and
whine about the "leftists" group. Find somewhere else to vent
ignorance and then we can keep this group to survival topics.
You shouldnt talk about ignorance. I remember you saying we were a
Democracy and not a Republic on numerous occasions. And Ben Franklin was a
leftist too.

typical hogwash.
CS
2011-11-01 14:57:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by DogDiesel
There's real homeless and noveau homeless. Wallstreet occupiers are
nothing more then America the free, haters.
Why don't you pathetic, whining dumbass losers take your hatred and
ignorance elsewhere. This is supposed to be a survival group where
discussions of practical survival techniques is supposed to be the
norm, not the exception. But horribly manipulated and uninformed
losers like you and the Mormon Moron have turned it into a whine and
cheese party where you can't do anything but bitch and ask stupid
questions. So unless you are capable of proving you actually have a
clue and grasp of reality take your incessing pathetic bullshit
elsewhere. And take mr flashlight fetish with you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My, such anger and hatred. You must be so enraged that you can't comprehend
this thread.
The OWS issue is real. Of course I don't agree much with this Barbara
Ehrenreich idiot, but dealing with survival in cities is an important issue.
There are places where it is literally illegal to pee, much less shit, even
if your not homeless. When no local merchants allow their restrooms to be
used by the public, and don't hesitate to call the cops if they see you
pissing in an alley, just stopping for gas can get dicey.
The irony here is, you bitch about hatred, then you heap it upon others,
attacking their religion, hobbies, and whatever else.
What goes around comes around.
Post by d***@dudu.org
Sounds like The Left to me. Intolerant, racist, hateful.
This is supposed to be a survivalist group, not a right wing bitch and
whine about the "leftists" group. Find somewhere else to vent
ignorance and then we can keep this group to survival topics.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So if you see someone doing something you don't like, you do it too, just
because...

SM talking endlessly about flashlights and batteries might be annoying to
you, but it is certainly on topic.

And survivalist stuff is generally a right wing thing. The left wants the
government to take care of them, and so lack survival skills beyond holding
a hand out and waiting for it to be filled with food/money/condoms.

Speaking of ignorance, would you like me to explain to you the function of
the killfile?

CS
Stormin Mormon
2011-11-01 15:08:00 UTC
Permalink
Reading and posting from alt survival.

It's my view that the left (liberal democrats) want us all
to be dependant on government. What I've heard of the OWS
demands, tend to want government to save them. Tax the rich,
pass out money to the OWS people. That kind of thing.

The right (true conservatives, which is no where to be
found, I fear) wants people to be self sufficient. I know of
few or no true conservatives who are running for elected
office.

As it happens, I'm both a conservative and a survivalist. I
hope the OWS crowds of protestors freeze butt and go home.
Sadly, being liberals, they will probably freeze butt and go
to hospitals and bus stations to warm up.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"CS" <***@sears.com> wrote in message news:***@supernews.com...


This is supposed to be a survivalist group, not a right wing
bitch and
whine about the "leftists" group. Find somewhere else to
vent
ignorance and then we can keep this group to survival
topics.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So if you see someone doing something you don't like, you do
it too, just
because...

SM talking endlessly about flashlights and batteries might
be annoying to
you, but it is certainly on topic.

And survivalist stuff is generally a right wing thing. The
left wants the
government to take care of them, and so lack survival skills
beyond holding
a hand out and waiting for it to be filled with
food/money/condoms.

Speaking of ignorance, would you like me to explain to you
the function of
the killfile?

CS
unknown
2011-11-01 15:38:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by DogDiesel
There's real homeless and noveau homeless. Wallstreet occupiers are
nothing more then America the free, haters.
Why don't you pathetic, whining dumbass losers take your hatred and
ignorance elsewhere. This is supposed to be a survival group where
discussions of practical survival techniques is supposed to be the
norm, not the exception. But horribly manipulated and uninformed
losers like you and the Mormon Moron have turned it into a whine and
cheese party where you can't do anything but bitch and ask stupid
questions. So unless you are capable of proving you actually have a
clue and grasp of reality take your incessing pathetic bullshit
elsewhere. And take mr flashlight fetish with you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My, such anger and hatred. You must be so enraged that you can't comprehend
this thread.
The OWS issue is real. Of course I don't agree much with this Barbara
Ehrenreich idiot, but dealing with survival in cities is an important issue.
There are places where it is literally illegal to pee, much less shit, even
if your not homeless. When no local merchants allow their restrooms to be
used by the public, and don't hesitate to call the cops if they see you
pissing in an alley, just stopping for gas can get dicey.
The irony here is, you bitch about hatred, then you heap it upon others,
attacking their religion, hobbies, and whatever else.
What goes around comes around.
Post by d***@dudu.org
Sounds like The Left to me. Intolerant, racist, hateful.
This is supposed to be a survivalist group, not a right wing bitch and
whine about the "leftists" group. Find somewhere else to vent
ignorance and then we can keep this group to survival topics.
But we don't agree with your means of survival which is stealing from
your neighbor out of jealousy and greed. You are a dumpster diver, free
handouts survivor.
Frank
2011-11-05 12:00:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by DogDiesel
There's real homeless and noveau homeless. Wallstreet occupiers are
nothing more then America the free, haters.
Why don't you pathetic, whining dumbass losers take your hatred and
ignorance elsewhere. This is supposed to be a survival group where
discussions of practical survival techniques is supposed to be the
norm, not the exception. But horribly manipulated and uninformed
losers like you and the Mormon Moron have turned it into a whine and
cheese party where you can't do anything but bitch and ask stupid
questions. So unless you are capable of proving you actually have a
clue and grasp of reality take your incessing pathetic bullshit
elsewhere. And take mr flashlight fetish with you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My, such anger and hatred. You must be so enraged that you can't comprehend
this thread.
The OWS issue is real. Of course I don't agree much with this Barbara
Ehrenreich idiot, but dealing with survival in cities is an important issue.
There are places where it is literally illegal to pee, much less shit, even
if your not homeless. When no local merchants allow their restrooms to be
used by the public, and don't hesitate to call the cops if they see you
pissing in an alley, just stopping for gas can get dicey.
The irony here is, you bitch about hatred, then you heap it upon others,
attacking their religion, hobbies, and whatever else.
What goes around comes around.
Post by d***@dudu.org
Sounds like The Left to me. Intolerant, racist, hateful.
This is supposed to be a survivalist group, not a right wing bitch and
whine about the "leftists" group. Find somewhere else to vent
ignorance and then we can keep this group to survival topics.
What do you think you are doing? Dum dum ;)
Stormin Mormon
2011-11-05 12:36:57 UTC
Permalink
Isn't that one of the liberal rules? Be the first to accuse
the Republicans of what you (the leftist) are already doing.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
Post by d***@dudu.org
This is supposed to be a survivalist group, not a right
wing bitch and
whine about the "leftists" group. Find somewhere else to
vent
ignorance and then we can keep this group to survival
topics.
What do you think you are doing? Dum dum ;)
Steve
2011-11-01 13:41:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by DogDiesel
There's real homeless and noveau homeless. Wallstreet occupiers are
nothing more then America the free, haters.
Why don't you pathetic, whining dumbass losers take your hatred and
ignorance elsewhere. This is supposed to be a survival group where
discussions of practical survival techniques is supposed to be the
norm, not the exception. But horribly manipulated and uninformed
losers like you and the Mormon Moron have turned it into a whine and
cheese party where you can't do anything but bitch and ask stupid
questions. So unless you are capable of proving you actually have a
clue and grasp of reality take your incessing pathetic bullshit
elsewhere. And take mr flashlight fetish with you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My, such anger and hatred. You must be so enraged that you can't comprehend
this thread.
The OWS issue is real.
There's an issue?
Post by d***@dudu.org
Of course I don't agree much with this Barbara
Ehrenreich idiot, but dealing with survival in cities is an important issue.
Try getting a job... That usually works..
Post by d***@dudu.org
There are places where it is literally illegal to pee, much less shit, even
if your not homeless.
well, DUH!
Post by d***@dudu.org
When no local merchants allow their restrooms to be
used by the public, and don't hesitate to call the cops if they see you
pissing in an alley,
Count on it...
Post by d***@dudu.org
just stopping for gas can get dicey.
The irony here is, you bitch about hatred, then you heap it upon others,
attacking their religion, hobbies, and whatever else.
Sounds like The Left to me. Intolerant, racist, hateful.
Go fire up a doobie, grab some munchies, and watch cartoons.
It'll do you good.
CS
DogDiesel
2011-11-01 14:19:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by DogDiesel
There's real homeless and noveau homeless. Wallstreet occupiers are
nothing more then America the free, haters.
Why don't you pathetic, whining dumbass losers take your hatred and
ignorance elsewhere. This is supposed to be a survival group where
discussions of practical survival techniques is supposed to be the
norm, not the exception. But horribly manipulated and uninformed
losers like you and the Mormon Moron have turned it into a whine and
cheese party where you can't do anything but bitch and ask stupid
questions. So unless you are capable of proving you actually have a
clue and grasp of reality take your incessing pathetic bullshit
elsewhere. And take mr flashlight fetish with you.
Eat crap dudu . A reply to a post can be anything. I didnt start the
post. Nevertheless the survivability of the country is survival. And
heres your proof that you liberals are full of shit with your borrowing.



http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson


I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our Constitution. I
would be willing to depend on that alone for the reduction of the
administration of our government; I mean an additional article taking from
the Federal Government the power of borrowing."
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Taylor of Caroline, November 26, 1798



The Constitution does not have a balanced budget amendment largely because
of the Founders attitude that only gold and silver would be the medium of
exchange in the states as expressed in Article I, Section 10 of the
Constitution. This would automatically inhibit governments' temptation to
first create and then inflate paper money. We got off track rather quickly
and by 1797 Thomas Jefferson wrote in irritation, "I wish it were possible
to obtain a single amendment to our Constitution. I would be willing to
depend on that alone for the reduction of the administration of our
government; I mean an additional article taking from the Federal Government
the power of borrowing. I now deny their power of making paper money or
anything else a legal tender" (Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Taylor of
Caroline, November 26, 1798; reproduced in The Writings of Thomas Jefferson
v. 10, edited by Lipscomb and Bergh).

A Constitutional amendment to restrict the federal government from further
enslaving our children with debt could come from either the states or the
Congress. Since 1975 thirty-two states have petitioned Congress proposing a
balanced budget amendment. Two more, are needed to complete the 2/3rds
requirement of Article V in the Constitution forcing the ratification
process. This process necessitates the acceptance of 3/4ths of the states
which, with the flagrant abuse of our money supply on the part of the
federal government, should be a given. The beauty of this is that a spending
addicted president, whether republican or democrat, is by-passed. No
signature is sought and no veto power can be exercised. So states let us get
two more states on board.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_budget_amendment
unknown
2011-11-01 15:37:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by DogDiesel
There's real homeless and noveau homeless. Wallstreet occupiers are
nothing more then America the free, haters.
Why don't you pathetic, whining dumbass losers take your hatred and
ignorance elsewhere. This is supposed to be a survival group where
discussions of practical survival techniques is supposed to be the
norm, not the exception. But horribly manipulated and uninformed
losers like you and the Mormon Moron have turned it into a whine and
cheese party where you can't do anything but bitch and ask stupid
questions. So unless you are capable of proving you actually have a
clue and grasp of reality take your incessing pathetic bullshit
elsewhere. And take mr flashlight fetish with you.
Have you ever considered getting a job and seeing things as the normal
tax paying public does? Your jealousy and greed are boring us.
Robert not Roberto
2011-11-01 16:24:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by DogDiesel
There's real homeless and noveau homeless. Wallstreet occupiers are
nothing more then America the free, haters.
Why don't you pathetic, whining dumbass losers take your hatred and
ignorance elsewhere. This is supposed to be a survival group where
discussions of practical survival techniques is supposed to be the
norm, not the exception. But horribly manipulated and uninformed
losers like you and the Mormon Moron have turned it into a whine and
cheese party where you can't do anything but bitch and ask stupid
questions. So unless you are capable of proving you actually have a
clue and grasp of reality take your incessing pathetic bullshit
elsewhere. And take mr flashlight fetish with you.
=======================================================
Why do you lefties always have to resort to personal attacks?
DogDiesel
2011-11-01 17:16:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by DogDiesel
There's real homeless and noveau homeless. Wallstreet occupiers are
nothing more then America the free, haters.
Why don't you pathetic, whining dumbass losers take your hatred and
ignorance elsewhere. This is supposed to be a survival group where
discussions of practical survival techniques is supposed to be the
norm, not the exception. But horribly manipulated and uninformed
losers like you and the Mormon Moron have turned it into a whine and
cheese party where you can't do anything but bitch and ask stupid
questions. So unless you are capable of proving you actually have a
clue and grasp of reality take your incessing pathetic bullshit
elsewhere. And take mr flashlight fetish with you.
=======================================================
Why do you lefties always have to resort to personal attacks?
Because the facts prove them wrong. Or They are mental cases and dont know
it. Or they are brainwshed and biased. Or collecting checks.

And lies and deception and racism gets them 90% of their votes .
CS
2011-11-01 19:42:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by DogDiesel
There's real homeless and noveau homeless. Wallstreet occupiers are
nothing more then America the free, haters.
Why don't you pathetic, whining dumbass losers take your hatred and
ignorance elsewhere. This is supposed to be a survival group where
discussions of practical survival techniques is supposed to be the
norm, not the exception. But horribly manipulated and uninformed
losers like you and the Mormon Moron have turned it into a whine and
cheese party where you can't do anything but bitch and ask stupid
questions. So unless you are capable of proving you actually have a
clue and grasp of reality take your incessing pathetic bullshit
elsewhere. And take mr flashlight fetish with you.
=======================================================
Why do you lefties always have to resort to personal attacks?
Because the facts prove them wrong. Or They are mental cases and dont know
it. Or they are brainwshed and biased. Or collecting checks.

And lies and deception and racism gets them 90% of their votes .

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Or all of the above.

Sorry, lies and deception only make up 40% of the votes. Another 10% is
made up of violent animal criminals, whom the left thinks of as 'victims,'
and for some reason are allowed to vote in their locals. The other 50% is
illegal aliens, Mickey Mouse, dead people, armed, black, Obama approved
militants threatening whitey away from the booths, and various other forms
of voter fraud.

CS
d***@dudu.org
2011-11-01 17:37:00 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 1 Nov 2011 09:24:04 -0700, "Robert not Roberto"
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by DogDiesel
There's real homeless and noveau homeless. Wallstreet occupiers are
nothing more then America the free, haters.
Why don't you pathetic, whining dumbass losers take your hatred and
ignorance elsewhere. This is supposed to be a survival group where
discussions of practical survival techniques is supposed to be the
norm, not the exception. But horribly manipulated and uninformed
losers like you and the Mormon Moron have turned it into a whine and
cheese party where you can't do anything but bitch and ask stupid
questions. So unless you are capable of proving you actually have a
clue and grasp of reality take your incessing pathetic bullshit
elsewhere. And take mr flashlight fetish with you.
=======================================================
Why do you lefties always have to resort to personal attacks?
When you see absurd and blatant lies like "OWS is mostly homeless, and
homeless are mostly mentally ill, and if it wasn't for liberals they
would be in mental hospitals" made by conservatives who bitterly
demand on cutting social services, well, there's no way to respond to
such abhorrent lies but with contempt and vitriol. It the right wing
could at least try to use some objective and critical thinking prior
to spewing hatred and lies then the left wouldn't have to hurt your
feelings by telling you what a complete idiot you are.
G. Morgan
2011-11-01 10:36:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hisler
A blistering essay by by Barbara Ehrenreich. No one could have said it
better.
You might like this one too...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45113135/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/

LOS ANGELES — Robert Gaffney, who came here from Oklahoma 10 years ago,
settled on a scrap of burlap the other day on a grassy hill outside City
Hall, surveying the tents and crowd that make up Occupy Los Angeles. For
many of his neighbors at City Hall Park, this is a center of protest and
political grievance. For Mr. Gaffney, it is the latest piece of land
that he calls home.

It is, he said, more comfortable than the sidewalk in Hollywood that he
has been living on for the last few months. It is safer and less sketchy
than Skid Row, the homeless colony a few blocks away.

“It’s different here,” said Mr. Gaffney, 31. “I find myself getting
sleep. Interesting conversation.” He held up a pair of dirty socks. “But
I haven’t figured out how to do laundry.”

Mr. Gaffney is hardly an unusual presence in the Occupy demonstrations
across the country these days. From Los Angeles to Wall Street, from
Denver to Boston, homeless men and women have joined the protesters in
large numbers, or at least have settled in beside them for the night.
While the economic deprivation they suffer might symbolize the grievance
at the heart of this protest, they have come less for the cause than for
what they almost invariably describe as an easier existence. There is
food, as well as bathrooms, safety, company and lots of activity to
allow them to pass away their days.

“When the tents went up, everybody moved in,” Douglas Marra, a homeless
person in Denver, said. “They knew they could get stuff for free.”

But their presence is posing a mounting quandary for protesters and the
authorities, and divisions have arisen among protesters across the
country about how much, if at all, to embrace the interlopers. The
rising number of homeless, many of them suffering from mental disorders,
has made it easier for Occupy’s opponents to belittle the movement as
vagrant and lawless and has raised the pressure on municipal authorities
to crack down.

In Atlanta on Saturday, demonstrators who had been thrown out of
Woodruff Park by the police moved into upper floors of the
Peachtree-Pine homeless shelter in a full-scale embrace of the cause of
the 600 residents who live below them. It gave the demonstration more of
a political focus, and not incidentally expanded its size.

“The homeless bring numbers,” said Alex Smith Jr., 50, a former
repairman who lives at the shelter and joined the protests. “They bring
a voice.”

But in places like Nashville, New York, Los Angeles and Oakland, Calif.,
protesters talk about feeling unsafe because of the presence of homeless
people.

“There are a lot of them here that have mental problems and that need
help. They are in the wrong place,” said Jessica Anderson, 22, who is
herself homeless, sitting with friends on a tarp at the Los Angeles
site. “They have been creating more problems. There was one guy who
showed up last night and he would not shut up: Saying all kinds of crazy
stuff all night.”

In Nashville, organizers described the homeless as more of a detriment
to the movement than an asset. “This is keeping people away: It
distracts a lot of energy away from the issues we’re fighting for when
we’re just managing life in the camp,” said Bob Titley 56, one of the
participants in Occupy Nashville. “A lot of women felt unsafe camping
out at night. It discourages a lot of people from participating.”

The influx of homeless has been continuing at a steady pace, even as the
overall populations of some of the demonstrations have faded under the
pressures of dropping temperatures, the passage of time and increasingly
aggressive police tactics. Some organizers estimated that as many as 30
percent of the people camping out in some cities were chronically
homeless, a figure that seems impossible to verify.
Story: Tenn. to stop arresting Occupy protesters

That said, in many encampments, the evidence of a homeless population
was plentiful amid the more high-quality tents: blankets, shopping
carts, piles of clothes, and people sleeping on the grass, a sheet
pulled over their heads. Nan Roman, president of the National Alliance
to End Homelessness, said the demonstrators and the homeless have some
shared interests.

“Homeless people, I think, identify with Occupy because it’s about
inequities,” she said. “And it’s another group that is trying to live
outside. It’s not surprising that there’s a confluence here.”

Interviews across the country attest to the complexity of the situation.

At Zuccotti Park in Lower Manhattan, some homeless have integrated
themselves into Occupy Wall Street, protesters said. But others, they
said, appeared to be opportunists looking for free food and clothes, and
were often disruptive. Hero Vincent, 21, said that he was a member of a
security team that roamed the park and has several times broken up
disputes involving people who appeared to be homeless.

“It’s bad for most of us who came here to build a movement,” he said.
“We didn’t come here to start a recovery institution.”

In Chicago, where there has been a steady influx of homeless people,
organizers said there were just occasional problems, involving drinking
alcohol or provoking violence. “We just ask them to leave,” said Taylor
Stekkinger, 18, a member the group’s organizational committee.

While some homeless people said they were appreciative of the
protesters’ cause, other said they were more grateful for the amenities.
Cameron Rose, 26, who spent the past two months sleeping in restrooms
and under highways in Oakland, called it a welcome respite from a life
of worry about food and safety.
Video: Occupy movement picks up momentum (on this page)

“If I need clothes, someone donates clothes,” he said. “If I need to
take a shower, someone helps me find a place to do that. If I need
medical help, there are medics here. Everyone gets fed well, 24/7. I
need medical marijuana but I have no money. Here, people give it to me.”

At a food tent here in Los Angeles, the homeless are often the first in
line when a pot of stew comes out, many of them wandering over from Skid
Row.

“If you are hungry and are in need of a meal, we will serve you as long
as you do not disrupt the occupiers,” said Michele Watson, one of the
managers of the food tent, on a soft and sunny day that was a reminder
of why so many homeless people have settled in this city. “We don’t turn
anyone away. I don’t care what your address is.”

Reporting was contributed by Jess Bidgood from Boston, Robbie Brown from
Atlanta, Dan Frosch from Denver, Ian Lovett from Los Angeles, Colin
Moynihan from New York, Malia Wollan from Oakland, Calif., and Steven
Yaccino from Chicago.

This story, "Dissenting, or seeking shelter? Homeless stake a claim at
protests," originally appeared in The New York Times.
--
"I don't like to discriminate against terrorists based on nationality.
If you declare war on the United States and you want to kill us,
We're going to kill you first, period."

October 19, 2011 - Ali Soufan (Colbert Report)
Mr.Sandman
2011-11-01 11:10:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hisler
A blistering essay by by Barbara Ehrenreich. No one could have said it
better.
Yes, this is a most enlightening article by Barbara Ehrenreich, the
indigent in the U.S.A are becoming worst than slaves. Selfishness and
greed have become the order of the day. No public free space to even
take a piss. But you jerks and clowns want to give the government even
more power to harass so-called illegal aliens. This is all inconsistent
with the principles of true liberty.
Post by Hisler
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/10/23-3
Gunner Asch
2011-11-01 17:07:17 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 07:10:19 -0400, "Mr.Sandman"
Post by Mr.Sandman
Post by Hisler
A blistering essay by by Barbara Ehrenreich. No one could have said it
better.
Yes, this is a most enlightening article by Barbara Ehrenreich, the
indigent in the U.S.A are becoming worst than slaves. Selfishness and
greed have become the order of the day. No public free space to even
take a piss. But you jerks and clowns want to give the government even
more power to harass so-called illegal aliens. This is all inconsistent
with the principles of true liberty.
Post by Hisler
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/10/23-3
So Called Illegal Aliens?

Care to inform the readers why you call them "so called illegal aliens"?

Use as much white space as necessary so we have plenty of ammo with
which to use on you.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch
CS
2011-11-01 19:44:45 UTC
Permalink
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 07:10:19 -0400, "Mr.Sandman"
Post by Mr.Sandman
Post by Hisler
A blistering essay by by Barbara Ehrenreich. No one could have said it
better.
Yes, this is a most enlightening article by Barbara Ehrenreich, the
indigent in the U.S.A are becoming worst than slaves. Selfishness and
greed have become the order of the day. No public free space to even
take a piss. But you jerks and clowns want to give the government even
more power to harass so-called illegal aliens. This is all inconsistent
with the principles of true liberty.
Post by Hisler
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/10/23-3
So Called Illegal Aliens?

Care to inform the readers why you call them "so called illegal aliens"?

Use as much white space as necessary so we have plenty of ammo with
which to use on you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Because we should have open borders, just like Mex, uh, Guat, no, El Sal,
oh, well, we just should, because we're nice, and nice countries don't have
borders, just like Canad, hmmmmm

CS
Steve from Colorado
2011-11-01 19:54:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner Asch
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 07:10:19 -0400, "Mr.Sandman"
Post by Mr.Sandman
Post by Hisler
A blistering essay by by Barbara Ehrenreich. No one could have said it
better.
Yes, this is a most enlightening article by Barbara Ehrenreich, the
indigent in the U.S.A are becoming worst than slaves. Selfishness and
greed have become the order of the day. No public free space to even
take a piss. But you jerks and clowns want to give the government even
more power to harass so-called illegal aliens. This is all inconsistent
with the principles of true liberty.
Post by Hisler
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/10/23-3
So Called Illegal Aliens?
Care to inform the readers why you call them "so called illegal aliens"?
I caught that as well. Typical "progressive" / communist attempt to
take control of the language as George Orwell laid out in his book
"1984." Illegal aliens, invaders, enemy combatants, criminal aliens
-- those words are a threat to La Raza, Mexico, and progressives
because they speak truth about the invasion of our country by Fifth
Column illegal entrants and their lackeys.
Post by Gunner Asch
Use as much white space as necessary so we have plenty of ammo with
which to use on you.
Gunner
One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
                                   Gunner Asch
Sexual Harassment Panda
2011-11-01 20:04:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve from Colorado
Post by Gunner Asch
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 07:10:19 -0400, "Mr.Sandman"
Post by Mr.Sandman
Post by Hisler
A blistering essay by by Barbara Ehrenreich. No one could have said it
better.
Yes, this is a most enlightening article by Barbara Ehrenreich, the
indigent in the U.S.A are becoming worst than slaves. Selfishness and
greed have become the order of the day. No public free space to even
take a piss. But you jerks and clowns want to give the government even
more power to harass so-called illegal aliens. This is all inconsistent
with the principles of true liberty.
Post by Hisler
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/10/23-3
So Called Illegal Aliens?
Care to inform the readers why you call them "so called illegal aliens"?
I caught that as well. Typical "progressive" / communist attempt to
take control of the language as George Orwell laid out in his book
"1984."
Death tax
pro-life
job creators
enhanced interrogation techniques
war on terror
free trade
tort reform
Social Security personal accounts
Post by Steve from Colorado
Illegal aliens, invaders, enemy combatants, criminal aliens
-- those words are a threat to La Raza, Mexico, and progressives
because they speak truth about the invasion of our country by Fifth
Column illegal entrants and their lackeys.
Post by Gunner Asch
Use as much white space as necessary so we have plenty of ammo with
which to use on you.
Gunner
One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch
--

Ezekiel 23:20
Buster Norris (Pops a Black Eye On Sissy Dem's Ugly Faces and Laughs)
2011-11-02 01:24:23 UTC
Permalink
Summary: A classic usenet zoo monkey. Liars, once they have been
exposed, frequently revert to behavior most similar to a zoo monkey
who sits in the cage throwing feces at passersby but saying nothing of
value. Note that when you reply to a Proven Liar you encourage them to
continue lying.

[][][][][][]

The DemocRAT Hall Of Shame http://www.democrathallofshame.com/ asks
"Why do you always LIE?"


Liars are exposed:

On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 13:48:18 -0700, Bible Studies with Satan
Re: GOP lawmaker apologizes to Stupak for 'baby killer' outburst
Oops! Caught LYING, again:

Neugebauer DID NOT apologize to Stupak.

Neugebauer said "While I remain heartbroken over the passage of this
bill and the tragic consequences it will have for the unborn, I deeply
regret that my actions were mistakenly interpreted as a direct
reference to Congressman Stupak himself."

Neugebauer DID NOT apologize to for the words "Baby Killer."

Neugebauer said "The timing and tone of my comment last night was
inappropriate."

=== Update =========================

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:04:44 -0700, Bible Studies with Satan
On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 13:48:18 -0700, Bible Studies with Satan
Re: GOP lawmaker apologizes to Stupak for 'baby killer' outburst
Neugebauer DID NOT apologize to Stupak.
Stupak himself was on hardball last night. Not only did that asshole Neugebaur
<http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/ns/msnbc_tv-hardball_with_chris_matthews#35992175>
Oops! LIED AGAIN!

Your link DID NOT include Neugebauer.

Your link DOES NOT include Neugebauer speaking "personally to Stupak."

Your link DOES NOT include Neugebauer speaking AT ALL.
You have some serious problems, Gamer.
As I have PROVEN, it is YOU who have the problems....

Hahahahahahahahaha!!!
Neugebauer said "While I remain heartbroken over the passage of this
bill and the tragic consequences it will have for the unborn, I deeply
regret that my actions were mistakenly interpreted as a direct
reference to Congressman Stupak himself."
Neugebauer DID NOT apologize to for the words "Baby Killer."
Neugebauer said "The timing and tone of my comment last night was
inappropriate."
See above.

Learn to like your lies.

They will follow you FOREVER.

Posted from:
The DemocRATs Hall of Shame!
http://www.democrathallofshame.com/
Ray Keller
2011-11-02 03:35:22 UTC
Permalink
I wonder which soon to be dead nym changing leftard panda is
Post by Steve from Colorado
Post by Gunner Asch
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 07:10:19 -0400, "Mr.Sandman"
Post by Mr.Sandman
Post by Hisler
A blistering essay by by Barbara Ehrenreich. No one could have said it
better.
Yes, this is a most enlightening article by Barbara Ehrenreich, the
indigent in the U.S.A are becoming worst than slaves. Selfishness and
greed have become the order of the day. No public free space to even
take a piss. But you jerks and clowns want to give the government even
more power to harass so-called illegal aliens. This is all inconsistent
with the principles of true liberty.
Post by Hisler
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/10/23-3
So Called Illegal Aliens?
Care to inform the readers why you call them "so called illegal aliens"?
I caught that as well. Typical "progressive" / communist attempt to
take control of the language as George Orwell laid out in his book
"1984."
Death tax
pro-life
job creators
enhanced interrogation techniques
war on terror
free trade
tort reform
Social Security personal accounts
Post by Steve from Colorado
Illegal aliens, invaders, enemy combatants, criminal aliens
-- those words are a threat to La Raza, Mexico, and progressives
because they speak truth about the invasion of our country by Fifth
Column illegal entrants and their lackeys.
Post by Gunner Asch
Use as much white space as necessary so we have plenty of ammo with
which to use on you.
Gunner
One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch
--
http://youtu.be/OQnNH7I07RY
Ezekiel 23:20
Hisler
2011-11-02 23:06:51 UTC
Permalink
I wonder which soon to be dead nym changing leftard panda is
Yeah. Wasn't she "Bible Studies for Satan" last week?
Post by Gunner Asch
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 07:10:19 -0400, "Mr.Sandman"
Post by Mr.Sandman
Post by Hisler
A blistering essay by by Barbara Ehrenreich. No one could have
said it
Post by Mr.Sandman
Post by Hisler
better.
Yes, this is a most enlightening article by Barbara Ehrenreich, the
indigent in the U.S.A are becoming worst than slaves. Selfishness and
greed have become the order of the day. No public free space to even
take a piss. But you jerks and clowns want to give the government even
more power to harass so-called illegal aliens. This is all inconsistent
with the principles of true liberty.
Post by Hisler
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/10/23-3
So Called Illegal Aliens?
Care to inform the readers why you call them "so called illegal aliens"?
I caught that as well. Typical "progressive" / communist attempt to
take control of the language as George Orwell laid out in his book
"1984."
Death tax
pro-life
job creators
enhanced interrogation techniques
war on terror
free trade
tort reform
Social Security personal accounts
Illegal aliens, invaders, enemy combatants, criminal aliens
-- those words are a threat to La Raza, Mexico, and progressives
because they speak truth about the invasion of our country by Fifth
Column illegal entrants and their lackeys.
Post by Gunner Asch
Use as much white space as necessary so we have plenty of ammo with
which to use on you.
Gunner
One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch
Sexual Harassment Panda
2011-11-02 23:14:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hisler
I wonder which soon to be dead nym changing leftard panda is
Yeah. Wasn't she "Bible Studies for Satan" last week?
Just until Coke-Can Pizza-Man 999's little old scandal winds down.
Post by Hisler
Post by Gunner Asch
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 07:10:19 -0400, "Mr.Sandman"
Post by Mr.Sandman
Post by Hisler
A blistering essay by by Barbara Ehrenreich. No one could have
said it
Post by Mr.Sandman
Post by Hisler
better.
Yes, this is a most enlightening article by Barbara Ehrenreich, the
indigent in the U.S.A are becoming worst than slaves. Selfishness and
greed have become the order of the day. No public free space to even
take a piss. But you jerks and clowns want to give the government even
more power to harass so-called illegal aliens. This is all inconsistent
with the principles of true liberty.
Post by Hisler
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/10/23-3
So Called Illegal Aliens?
Care to inform the readers why you call them "so called illegal aliens"?
I caught that as well. Typical "progressive" / communist attempt to
take control of the language as George Orwell laid out in his book
"1984."
Death tax
pro-life
job creators
enhanced interrogation techniques
war on terror
free trade
tort reform
Social Security personal accounts
Illegal aliens, invaders, enemy combatants, criminal aliens
-- those words are a threat to La Raza, Mexico, and progressives
because they speak truth about the invasion of our country by Fifth
Column illegal entrants and their lackeys.
Post by Gunner Asch
Use as much white space as necessary so we have plenty of ammo with
which to use on you.
Gunner
One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch
--
http://youtu.be/OQnNH7I07RY
Ezekiel 23:20
Buster Norris (Pops a Black Eye On Sissy Dem's Ugly Faces and Laughs)
2011-11-03 02:27:27 UTC
Permalink
Summary: A classic usenet zoo monkey. Liars, once they have been
exposed, frequently revert to behavior most similar to a zoo monkey
who sits in the cage throwing feces at passersby but saying nothing of
value. Note that when you reply to a Proven Liar you encourage them to
continue lying.

[][][][][][]

The DemocRAT Hall Of Shame http://www.democrathallofshame.com/ asks
"Why do you always LIE?"

[Courtesy of Buster Norris]

On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 17:23:29 -0700, Bible Studies with Satan
Thats funny. Obama is asking $35k to talk.
No he isn't.
Liar!!!!!!!!!!!!!

President Obama.... went to the home of Salesforce.com CEO Marc Beniof
for a $35,000-a-plate fundraiser.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Guess-Who-Just-Paid-35000-For-siliconalley-3528980714.html?x=0

Posted from:
The DemocRATs Hall of Shame!
http://www.democrathallofshame.com/
Stormin Mormon
2011-11-04 12:48:34 UTC
Permalink
I'd like to see zero tax payer dollars spend on illegals.
Except for law enforcement to dump them back where they
came.

Let me guess? You think it's "liberty" to take my money, by
the force of government, and give my money to people who are
here illegally?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Mr.Sandman" <***@overtherainbow.com> wrote in message news:wsQrq.17251$***@newsfe11.iad...

But you jerks and clowns want to give the government even
more power to harass so-called illegal aliens. This is all
inconsistent
with the principles of true liberty.
unknown
2011-11-01 15:34:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hisler
A blistering essay by by Barbara Ehrenreich. No one could have said it
better.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/10/23-3
Published on Sunday, October 23, 2011 by TomDispatch.com
Throw Them Out With the Trash: Why Homelessness Is Becoming an Occupy
Wall Street Issue
Published on Sunday, October 23, 2011 by TomDispatch.com
Throw Them Out With the Trash: Why Homelessness Is Becoming an Occupy
Wall Street Issue
by Barbara Ehrenreich
As anyone knows who has ever had to set up a military encampment or
build a village from the ground up, occupations pose staggering
logistical problems. Large numbers of people must be fed and kept
reasonably warm and dry. Trash has to be removed; medical care and
rudimentary security provided -- to which ends a dozen or more
committees may toil night and day. But for the individual occupier, one
problem often overshadows everything else, including job loss, the
destruction of the middle class, and the reign of the 1%. And that is
the single question: Where am I going to pee?
OWS protesters don't care where they pee or shit. They masturbate in
public to cause a spectacle. Typical worthless Marxist fools. They are
of the 47% who don't pay taxes, and rely on social programs to live.
Winston_Smith
2011-11-02 19:08:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
OWS protesters don't care where they pee or shit. They masturbate in
public to cause a spectacle. Typical worthless Marxist fools. They are
of the 47% who don't pay taxes, and rely on social programs to live.
100% bull shit. I can't decide if your are an agitator, a troll, or
just plain stupid.
d***@dudu.org
2011-11-02 21:12:51 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 12:08:23 -0700, Winston_Smith
Post by Winston_Smith
Post by unknown
OWS protesters don't care where they pee or shit. They masturbate in
public to cause a spectacle. Typical worthless Marxist fools. They are
of the 47% who don't pay taxes, and rely on social programs to live.
100% bull shit. I can't decide if your are an agitator, a troll, or
just plain stupid.
Just plain stupid.
Winston_Smith
2011-11-02 21:33:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by Winston_Smith
Post by unknown
OWS protesters don't care where they pee or shit. They masturbate in
public to cause a spectacle. Typical worthless Marxist fools. They are
of the 47% who don't pay taxes, and rely on social programs to live.
You mean the same OWS that include the same batch of Nazi
demonstrators that support the tea party? Those the guys you talking
about?

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201110270025
Occupy Phoenix Neo-Nazi Previously Attended Tea Party Rallies
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by Winston_Smith
100% bull shit. I can't decide if your are an agitator, a troll, or
just plain stupid.
Just plain stupid.
Remember, I'm the wild eyed ultra right conservative you used to rail
against.

Two parties, not a dimes worth of difference.
d***@dudu.org
2011-11-02 21:51:57 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 14:33:34 -0700, Winston_Smith
Post by Winston_Smith
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by Winston_Smith
Post by unknown
OWS protesters don't care where they pee or shit. They masturbate in
public to cause a spectacle. Typical worthless Marxist fools. They are
of the 47% who don't pay taxes, and rely on social programs to live.
You mean the same OWS that include the same batch of Nazi
demonstrators that support the tea party? Those the guys you talking
about?
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201110270025
Occupy Phoenix Neo-Nazi Previously Attended Tea Party Rallies
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by Winston_Smith
100% bull shit. I can't decide if your are an agitator, a troll, or
just plain stupid.
Just plain stupid.
Remember, I'm the wild eyed ultra right conservative you used to rail
against.
Two parties, not a dimes worth of difference.
LIttle multi personality disorder, eh? ;)
Winston_Smith
2011-11-04 22:56:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@dudu.org
On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 14:33:34 -0700, Winston_Smith
Post by Winston_Smith
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by Winston_Smith
Post by unknown
OWS protesters don't care where they pee or shit. They masturbate in
public to cause a spectacle. Typical worthless Marxist fools. They are
of the 47% who don't pay taxes, and rely on social programs to live.
You mean the same OWS that include the same batch of Nazi
demonstrators that support the tea party? Those the guys you talking
about?
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201110270025
Occupy Phoenix Neo-Nazi Previously Attended Tea Party Rallies
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by Winston_Smith
100% bull shit. I can't decide if your are an agitator, a troll, or
just plain stupid.
Just plain stupid.
Remember, I'm the wild eyed ultra right conservative you used to rail
against.
Two parties, not a dimes worth of difference.
LIttle multi personality disorder, eh? ;)
Not really. I haven't changed my position on anything. When I point
out the NeoCons are nuts I'm called leftist. When I point out the
left is nuts, I'm called a Nazi. Both parties love to demonize any
and all critics. Two parties, not a dimes worth of difference.

Yes, children. there is a middle ground. It's called rational.
d***@dudu.org
2011-11-04 23:20:14 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 15:56:08 -0700, Winston_Smith
Post by Winston_Smith
Post by d***@dudu.org
On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 14:33:34 -0700, Winston_Smith
Post by Winston_Smith
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by Winston_Smith
Post by unknown
OWS protesters don't care where they pee or shit. They masturbate in
public to cause a spectacle. Typical worthless Marxist fools. They are
of the 47% who don't pay taxes, and rely on social programs to live.
You mean the same OWS that include the same batch of Nazi
demonstrators that support the tea party? Those the guys you talking
about?
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201110270025
Occupy Phoenix Neo-Nazi Previously Attended Tea Party Rallies
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by Winston_Smith
100% bull shit. I can't decide if your are an agitator, a troll, or
just plain stupid.
Just plain stupid.
Remember, I'm the wild eyed ultra right conservative you used to rail
against.
Two parties, not a dimes worth of difference.
LIttle multi personality disorder, eh? ;)
Not really. I haven't changed my position on anything. When I point
out the NeoCons are nuts I'm called leftist. When I point out the
left is nuts, I'm called a Nazi. Both parties love to demonize any
and all critics. Two parties, not a dimes worth of difference.
Yes, children. there is a middle ground. It's called rational.
Can't argue with you there. The Dems certainly have been ineffectual
in moving along any sort of progress. But at least they have the
right ideas in mind. Or at least they say. The right wing is more
blatant in their shameless kowtowing to the wealthy. Either way you
direct your criticism, one thing is for certain, and that is the ultra
wealthy have far, far too much influence and control over our
legislative and enforcement functions in our government.. We need to
figure out how to take our government back but I fear it is far too
late for anything to work now except bloody revolution.
Winston_Smith
2011-11-05 17:27:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@dudu.org
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 15:56:08 -0700, Winston_Smith
Post by Winston_Smith
Post by d***@dudu.org
On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 14:33:34 -0700, Winston_Smith
Post by Winston_Smith
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by Winston_Smith
Post by unknown
OWS protesters don't care where they pee or shit. They masturbate in
public to cause a spectacle. Typical worthless Marxist fools. They are
of the 47% who don't pay taxes, and rely on social programs to live.
You mean the same OWS that include the same batch of Nazi
demonstrators that support the tea party? Those the guys you talking
about?
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201110270025
Occupy Phoenix Neo-Nazi Previously Attended Tea Party Rallies
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by Winston_Smith
100% bull shit. I can't decide if your are an agitator, a troll, or
just plain stupid.
Just plain stupid.
Remember, I'm the wild eyed ultra right conservative you used to rail
against.
Two parties, not a dimes worth of difference.
LIttle multi personality disorder, eh? ;)
Not really. I haven't changed my position on anything. When I point
out the NeoCons are nuts I'm called leftist. When I point out the
left is nuts, I'm called a Nazi. Both parties love to demonize any
and all critics. Two parties, not a dimes worth of difference.
Yes, children. there is a middle ground. It's called rational.
Can't argue with you there. The Dems certainly have been ineffectual
in moving along any sort of progress. But at least they have the
right ideas in mind. Or at least they say. The right wing is more
blatant in their shameless kowtowing to the wealthy. Either way you
direct your criticism, one thing is for certain, and that is the ultra
wealthy have far, far too much influence and control over our
legislative and enforcement functions in our government.. We need to
figure out how to take our government back but I fear it is far too
late for anything to work now except bloody revolution.
Too late to stop them but too soon to start killing them.
Gunner Asch
2011-11-05 20:56:54 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 05 Nov 2011 10:27:07 -0700, Winston_Smith
Post by Winston_Smith
Post by d***@dudu.org
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 15:56:08 -0700, Winston_Smith
Post by Winston_Smith
Post by d***@dudu.org
On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 14:33:34 -0700, Winston_Smith
Post by Winston_Smith
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by Winston_Smith
Post by unknown
OWS protesters don't care where they pee or shit. They masturbate in
public to cause a spectacle. Typical worthless Marxist fools. They are
of the 47% who don't pay taxes, and rely on social programs to live.
You mean the same OWS that include the same batch of Nazi
demonstrators that support the tea party? Those the guys you talking
about?
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201110270025
Occupy Phoenix Neo-Nazi Previously Attended Tea Party Rallies
Post by d***@dudu.org
Post by Winston_Smith
100% bull shit. I can't decide if your are an agitator, a troll, or
just plain stupid.
Just plain stupid.
Remember, I'm the wild eyed ultra right conservative you used to rail
against.
Two parties, not a dimes worth of difference.
LIttle multi personality disorder, eh? ;)
Not really. I haven't changed my position on anything. When I point
out the NeoCons are nuts I'm called leftist. When I point out the
left is nuts, I'm called a Nazi. Both parties love to demonize any
and all critics. Two parties, not a dimes worth of difference.
Yes, children. there is a middle ground. It's called rational.
Can't argue with you there. The Dems certainly have been ineffectual
in moving along any sort of progress. But at least they have the
right ideas in mind. Or at least they say. The right wing is more
blatant in their shameless kowtowing to the wealthy. Either way you
direct your criticism, one thing is for certain, and that is the ultra
wealthy have far, far too much influence and control over our
legislative and enforcement functions in our government.. We need to
figure out how to take our government back but I fear it is far too
late for anything to work now except bloody revolution.
Too late to stop them but too soon to start killing them.
But the clock is counting down.

It will really really suck to be a leftwinger when the time runs out.

Shrug


One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch
PaxPerPoten
2011-11-03 21:38:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@dudu.org
On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 12:08:23 -0700, Winston_Smith
Post by Winston_Smith
Post by unknown
OWS protesters don't care where they pee or shit. They masturbate in
public to cause a spectacle. Typical worthless Marxist fools. They are
of the 47% who don't pay taxes, and rely on social programs to live.
100% bull shit. I can't decide if your are an agitator, a troll, or
just plain stupid.
Just plain stupid.
No one is interested in yur personal problem.
robert bowman
2011-11-02 02:05:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hisler
But for the individual occupier, one
problem often overshadows everything else, including job loss, the
destruction of the middle class, and the reign of the 1%. And that is
the single question: Where am I going to pee?
Nothing new there. In the 1961 book 'Black like Me', Griffin said one of the
most pressing questions he found in his assumed identity was "where can a
black man take a leak?"
Frank
2011-11-04 13:19:07 UTC
Permalink
Lenin or the like called them useful idiots. Take it from there.
Stormin Mormon
2011-11-05 12:37:34 UTC
Permalink
Comrade Lenin probably hurt their feelings by saying that.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Frank" <***@comcast.net> wrote in message news:j90oob$4de$***@dont-email.me...
Lenin or the like called them useful idiots. Take it from
there.
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